Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Spanish term or phrase:
justicia propia
English translation:
private justice / customary justice
Added to glossary by
Charles Davis
Jul 31, 2018 15:32
5 yrs ago
9 viewers *
Spanish term
justicia propia
Spanish to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
listo fo conditions for research project proposals
g. Acceso efectivo al ejercicio de derechos y su promoción a través de formas de justicia comunitaria, justicia propia, y la legislación nacional
Proposed translations
(English)
Change log
Aug 2, 2018 22:01: Charles Davis Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+5
1 hr
Selected
private justice
I think this would be the best term. It it sometimes referred to as "vigilante justice", in the sense of people taking the law into their own hands. This is from a book called Youth in Postwar Guatemala: Education and Civic Identity in Transition, by Michelle J. Bellino:
"Víctor shares a story about an instance of justicia propia (vigilante justice) that took place the previous night. A drunk driver hit a family crossing the street, and quickly a crowd began to gather, throwing rocks at the car [...]"
The driver was nearly lynched. He escaped by paying the authorities.
https://books.google.es/books?id=SG8kDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA118
One might sympathise with the people who wanted "their own justice" here, but I don't think it's appropriate to use a negatively loaded expression that amounts to mob rule. This really refers to private rule-based systems of justice outside the public state justice system, particularly practised by indigenous communities. The following refers to the kankuamas of Colombia:
"De todo este proceso, dos aspectos resultaron los más provechosos para las mujeres kankuamas y su organización: el primero, su insistencia en examinar de fondo la justicia propia de su pueblo [...]"
https://books.google.es/books?id=jXRQDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT433
As I say, I think "private justice" is a suitably neutral term which marks the contrast with public justice:
"Worried about the legal consequences, the comité cívico (civic committee) of Sarhuino migrants in Lima sent a letter to the president of the administrative and vigilance council disagreeing with the communal meeting's decision to practice la justicia propia (private justice, also referred to as 'social justice')."
https://books.google.es/books?id=MbSsk6thfGAC&pg=PA118
"The normative system of the Wayuu is a very superior system compared to the ordinary system. It is based on reconciliation and dialogue and differs fundamentally from the Western system of justice administration that is based on the figure of the ‘judge’. [...] It doesn’t have any costs – not even for the country - because it is a very effective ‘private justice’"
https://www.berghof-foundation.org/fileadmin/redaktion/Publi...
"El conocido sistema normativo Wayuu sobre el cual se ha diseñado un Plan Especial de Salvaguardia, goza del reconocimiento por parte de la UNESCO que lo ha declarado como Patrimonio Cultural Inmaterial de la Humanidad. [...] ‘No cumplir con el esquema de compensaciones ante hechos de violencia ocasiona desbalance en nuestro pueblo porque se constituyen en un irrespeto a la identidad lo que deja heridas en la memoria colectiva y tensiones internas que pueden llevar a la guerra, la cual -insistimos-queremos evitar por medio de nuestra justicia propia.’”
https://siic.mininterior.gov.co/sites/default/files/pueblo_w... (pp. 38-39)
The Wayuu are in northern Colombia and Venezuela.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2018-07-31 17:34:52 GMT)
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It seems to me that "justicia propia" is being distinguished here from "justicia comunitaria".
Is it certain that "justicia propia" refers only to indigenous justice systems? It seems to me that in principle it could include any judicial or quasi-judicial procedure separate from state justice.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2018-07-31 17:36:10 GMT)
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I should have said at the beginning of my answer that "justicia propia" can refer to vigilante justice, though I don't think it does here.
"Víctor shares a story about an instance of justicia propia (vigilante justice) that took place the previous night. A drunk driver hit a family crossing the street, and quickly a crowd began to gather, throwing rocks at the car [...]"
The driver was nearly lynched. He escaped by paying the authorities.
https://books.google.es/books?id=SG8kDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA118
One might sympathise with the people who wanted "their own justice" here, but I don't think it's appropriate to use a negatively loaded expression that amounts to mob rule. This really refers to private rule-based systems of justice outside the public state justice system, particularly practised by indigenous communities. The following refers to the kankuamas of Colombia:
"De todo este proceso, dos aspectos resultaron los más provechosos para las mujeres kankuamas y su organización: el primero, su insistencia en examinar de fondo la justicia propia de su pueblo [...]"
https://books.google.es/books?id=jXRQDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT433
As I say, I think "private justice" is a suitably neutral term which marks the contrast with public justice:
"Worried about the legal consequences, the comité cívico (civic committee) of Sarhuino migrants in Lima sent a letter to the president of the administrative and vigilance council disagreeing with the communal meeting's decision to practice la justicia propia (private justice, also referred to as 'social justice')."
https://books.google.es/books?id=MbSsk6thfGAC&pg=PA118
"The normative system of the Wayuu is a very superior system compared to the ordinary system. It is based on reconciliation and dialogue and differs fundamentally from the Western system of justice administration that is based on the figure of the ‘judge’. [...] It doesn’t have any costs – not even for the country - because it is a very effective ‘private justice’"
https://www.berghof-foundation.org/fileadmin/redaktion/Publi...
"El conocido sistema normativo Wayuu sobre el cual se ha diseñado un Plan Especial de Salvaguardia, goza del reconocimiento por parte de la UNESCO que lo ha declarado como Patrimonio Cultural Inmaterial de la Humanidad. [...] ‘No cumplir con el esquema de compensaciones ante hechos de violencia ocasiona desbalance en nuestro pueblo porque se constituyen en un irrespeto a la identidad lo que deja heridas en la memoria colectiva y tensiones internas que pueden llevar a la guerra, la cual -insistimos-queremos evitar por medio de nuestra justicia propia.’”
https://siic.mininterior.gov.co/sites/default/files/pueblo_w... (pp. 38-39)
The Wayuu are in northern Colombia and Venezuela.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2018-07-31 17:34:52 GMT)
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It seems to me that "justicia propia" is being distinguished here from "justicia comunitaria".
Is it certain that "justicia propia" refers only to indigenous justice systems? It seems to me that in principle it could include any judicial or quasi-judicial procedure separate from state justice.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2018-07-31 17:36:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I should have said at the beginning of my answer that "justicia propia" can refer to vigilante justice, though I don't think it does here.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Jennifer Levey
: Good refs. It's clear that in the ST, "justicia propia" is a intended as a re-formulation of the previous expression "justicia comunitaria" - or, as your 4th para says: " la justicia propia de su pueblo" (where "pueblo" is the kankuamas, not a town).
36 mins
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Thanks, Robin :-)
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agree |
Michele Fauble
40 mins
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Thanks, Michele :-)
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agree |
philgoddard
: Or personal, maybe.
54 mins
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Thanks, Phil. I think "personal" might suggest acting individually, whereas I take this to refer to some kind of collective system.
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neutral |
AllegroTrans
: You refs are fine but I cannot help thinking that this sounds a tad agressive/confrontational
2 hrs
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It might be taken that way in some contexts (indeed, as I showed at the beginning, "justicia propia" can mean vigilante justice), but I think here it will be interpreted correctly.
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agree |
Lydianette Soza
6 hrs
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Thanks, Lydianette :-)
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neutral |
Robert Carter
: Well researched, but something about this term bothers me, it sounds as though it's in opposition to "public justice". Surely it's referring to indigenous or tribal justice, what they euphemistically call "usos y costumbres" in Mexico.
10 hrs
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Hi Robert. Yes, I think that is basically what it refers to, but I don't find this term unsuitable on that account. "Private" is in opposition to "public"; by "public" justice I mean that which emanates from and is administered by the state.
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agree |
Robert Forstag
: This would seem the best choice, given that it is by no means clear that “customary/indigenous law” is at question here. (Something like “ad hoc community-based justice” might better capture the sense, but is alas too unwieldy).
1 day 21 hrs
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Thank you, Robert :-)
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "thank you"
+4
6 mins
its own justice system
Sin más contexto, solo supongo...
¿Podría ser "indigenous justice system"?
It would be good if you could provide some more context, so as to ascertain what this "justicia propia" actually refers to.
Saludos cordiales.
¿Podría ser "indigenous justice system"?
It would be good if you could provide some more context, so as to ascertain what this "justicia propia" actually refers to.
Saludos cordiales.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Robert Forstag
: Something along these lines.
38 mins
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Thank you, Robert. :-)
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agree |
Jane Martin
: I think you are right and it refers to 'indigenous justice systems'. See this https://issat.dcaf.ch/Learn/Resource-Library/Case-Studies/Co...
50 mins
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Thank you very much, Jane. :-) Very good link! It tends to validate my guess. The problem with the question is that we don't have much context.
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agree |
patinba
: I definitely agree with "indigenous justice systems"
1 hr
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Thank you very much, Patinba. :-)
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agree |
Robert Carter
: I think you might be on the right track with "indigenous justice system". Saludos, John.
12 hrs
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Thank you very much, Robert. :-) Yes, that seems to be the case...
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-3
8 mins
frontier justice
Law into your own hands or vigilante justice - frontier justice.
Reference:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier_justice
https://www.linguee.es/espanol-ingles/traduccion/justicia+por+mano+propia.html
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Robert Forstag
: It strains credulity that a “project proposal” for a program presumibly functioning within the laws of the land where it is implemented would include “frontier justice” as one of its components. Accordingly, the high confidence level is mystifying....
40 mins
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disagree |
AllegroTrans
: It certainly does strain credulity, as does your OTT confidence level; what is this, cowboys n' Indians?
42 mins
|
disagree |
Evelyne Trolley de Prévaux
: I completely agree with John Morato
43 mins
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neutral |
Michele Fauble
: Not in asker's context.
2 hrs
|
-2
49 mins
self-righteousness.//own Administration of Justice.
IT DEPENDS ON THE WHOLE CONTEXT
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Robert Forstag
: So you think it plausible that a “project proposal” would advocate the implementation of “self-righteousness”? This is as ludicrous as Mr. Morató’s suggestion (with which - it seems - you intended to agree).
32 mins
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I agree, that is why I would prefer, as I have said , own Administration of Justice
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disagree |
AllegroTrans
: So being egotistical, self-satisfied and sanctimonious is a feature of a collaborative research project? Come on....; surely "Administration of Justice" (capitalized) is a state function?
3 hrs
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3 hrs
self-help
I don't think using "justice" work here, it is being used in an extremely wide sense, i.e. helping oneself, getting one's just entitlement
"Self-help" seems to me to be more appropriate in the context.
What is self-help project? definition and meaning - BusinessDictionary ...
www.businessdictionary.com/definition/self-help-project.htm...
Definition of self-help project: Usually a government sponsored scheme under which members of a community are encouraged to better themselves through ...
noun: self-help
the use of one's own efforts and resources to achieve things without relying on others.
"a reduction in the role of the state and an increasing reliance on self-help"
designed to assist people in achieving things for themselves.
modifier noun: self-help
"when I suffered from depression I went to a self-help group"
self-help (sĕlf′hĕlp′)
n.
The act or an instance of helping or improving oneself without assistance from others.
American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition. Copyright © 2016 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved.
self-help
n
1. the act or state of providing the means to help oneself without relying on the assistance of others
2.
a. the practice of solving one's problems by joining or forming a group designed to help those suffering from a particular problem
b. (as modifier): a self-help group.
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged, 12th Edition 2014 © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2014
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Note added at 6 hrs (2018-07-31 21:51:36 GMT)
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Self Help Research | Justice Education Society
https://www.justiceeducation.ca/about-us/research/self-help-...
The goal of this project was to examine civil and family justice needs in rural and remote areas of BC and to explore possible options for providing access to self-help services that will assist users to resolve their civil and family justice issues. ... However, a digital divide exists between urban and rural communities.
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Note added at 6 hrs (2018-07-31 21:53:30 GMT)
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Self-help, in the sense of a legal doctrine, refers to individuals' implementation of their rights without resorting to legal writ or consultation of higher authority, as where a financial institution repossesses a car on which they hold both the title and a defaulted note.
Self-help (law) - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-help_(law)
"Self-help" seems to me to be more appropriate in the context.
What is self-help project? definition and meaning - BusinessDictionary ...
www.businessdictionary.com/definition/self-help-project.htm...
Definition of self-help project: Usually a government sponsored scheme under which members of a community are encouraged to better themselves through ...
noun: self-help
the use of one's own efforts and resources to achieve things without relying on others.
"a reduction in the role of the state and an increasing reliance on self-help"
designed to assist people in achieving things for themselves.
modifier noun: self-help
"when I suffered from depression I went to a self-help group"
self-help (sĕlf′hĕlp′)
n.
The act or an instance of helping or improving oneself without assistance from others.
American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition. Copyright © 2016 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved.
self-help
n
1. the act or state of providing the means to help oneself without relying on the assistance of others
2.
a. the practice of solving one's problems by joining or forming a group designed to help those suffering from a particular problem
b. (as modifier): a self-help group.
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged, 12th Edition 2014 © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2014
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2018-07-31 21:51:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Self Help Research | Justice Education Society
https://www.justiceeducation.ca/about-us/research/self-help-...
The goal of this project was to examine civil and family justice needs in rural and remote areas of BC and to explore possible options for providing access to self-help services that will assist users to resolve their civil and family justice issues. ... However, a digital divide exists between urban and rural communities.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2018-07-31 21:53:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Self-help, in the sense of a legal doctrine, refers to individuals' implementation of their rights without resorting to legal writ or consultation of higher authority, as where a financial institution repossesses a car on which they hold both the title and a defaulted note.
Self-help (law) - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-help_(law)
+2
12 hrs
[indigenous] customary law
Only a confidence rating of 2 because of the scant context given and because I haven't seen this term used in this way before, but I offer this as a possible idea as to what the text is referring to.
In Mexico, for example, there is the expression "usos y costumbres", which refers to traditional justice practices in indigenous communities that the larger administrations have allowed to co-exist with codified national, state and municipal laws, virtually since colonisation. I'm thinking perhaps "justicia propia" is the term used in other Latin American countries with a similar meaning to "usos y costumbres".
The following reference relates to Colombia in particular, from a paper entitled "Estado de la Relación Entre Justicia Indígena y Justicia Estatal en los Países Andinos - Estudio de casos en Colombia, Perú, Ecuador y Bolivia":
PABA IGAL: Para el pueblo Tule, la justicia propia tiene un significado que parte de la prevención, la promoción, el consejo y el equilibrio con la naturaleza por parte las autoridades milenarias que conocen y aplican la ley de origen, llamada Paba igal.
Estas autoridades son:
• Saila, quien interpreta la Ley de Origen y orienta la justicia espiritual. Conocedor y guardián de la tradición y la memoria ancestral.
• Argal, conocedor de la sabiduría y la tradición del Pueblo Tule.
• Nele, adivino a nivel espiritual.
https://www.cejamericas.org/Documentos/DocumentosIDRC/98CAJ_...
Usos y costumbres ("customs and traditions"; literally, "uses and customs") is a legal term denoting indigenous customary law in Latin America. Since the era of Spanish colonialism, authorities have recognized local forms of rulership, self governance, and juridical practice, with varying degrees of acceptance and formality. The term is often used in English without translation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usos_y_costumbres
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Note added at 12 hrs (2018-08-01 04:13:44 GMT)
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Customary law is unofficial law in short. It is the long-established customs (standards of community) of a particular place or locale that the general law regards as a lawful practice.
For example, the so-called “Law of Nations” is a customary law. It comes from the customary exchanges between nations over time, and those customary exchanges may be based on historical relations, diplomacy or conflict. So customary international law is different from "international treaty law" (which are actual agreements or treaties between nations about obligations).
Another example:— English common law recognises “long usage.” The broad principle in English property law is if something has been done for a long time without objection, the law will eventually recognise this fact (‘established in law,’ so to speak). So a person occupying land without title may continue to do so as a legal right if there had not been any objection to him occupying that land.
Another example:— Indian law recognises many Indian social customs are legally valid, such as various forms of the Hindu marriage ceremony.
https://www.quora.com/What-are-examples-of-customary-law
In Mexico, for example, there is the expression "usos y costumbres", which refers to traditional justice practices in indigenous communities that the larger administrations have allowed to co-exist with codified national, state and municipal laws, virtually since colonisation. I'm thinking perhaps "justicia propia" is the term used in other Latin American countries with a similar meaning to "usos y costumbres".
The following reference relates to Colombia in particular, from a paper entitled "Estado de la Relación Entre Justicia Indígena y Justicia Estatal en los Países Andinos - Estudio de casos en Colombia, Perú, Ecuador y Bolivia":
PABA IGAL: Para el pueblo Tule, la justicia propia tiene un significado que parte de la prevención, la promoción, el consejo y el equilibrio con la naturaleza por parte las autoridades milenarias que conocen y aplican la ley de origen, llamada Paba igal.
Estas autoridades son:
• Saila, quien interpreta la Ley de Origen y orienta la justicia espiritual. Conocedor y guardián de la tradición y la memoria ancestral.
• Argal, conocedor de la sabiduría y la tradición del Pueblo Tule.
• Nele, adivino a nivel espiritual.
https://www.cejamericas.org/Documentos/DocumentosIDRC/98CAJ_...
Usos y costumbres ("customs and traditions"; literally, "uses and customs") is a legal term denoting indigenous customary law in Latin America. Since the era of Spanish colonialism, authorities have recognized local forms of rulership, self governance, and juridical practice, with varying degrees of acceptance and formality. The term is often used in English without translation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usos_y_costumbres
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2018-08-01 04:13:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Customary law is unofficial law in short. It is the long-established customs (standards of community) of a particular place or locale that the general law regards as a lawful practice.
For example, the so-called “Law of Nations” is a customary law. It comes from the customary exchanges between nations over time, and those customary exchanges may be based on historical relations, diplomacy or conflict. So customary international law is different from "international treaty law" (which are actual agreements or treaties between nations about obligations).
Another example:— English common law recognises “long usage.” The broad principle in English property law is if something has been done for a long time without objection, the law will eventually recognise this fact (‘established in law,’ so to speak). So a person occupying land without title may continue to do so as a legal right if there had not been any objection to him occupying that land.
Another example:— Indian law recognises many Indian social customs are legally valid, such as various forms of the Hindu marriage ceremony.
https://www.quora.com/What-are-examples-of-customary-law
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Charles Davis
: I think "customary law" is a reasonable interpretation. That was part of what I had in mind, in fact. Though it presupposes recognition and implies universality, which sit uneasily with "propia", I feel.
8 hrs
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Very kind of you, Charles. Yes, while it does presuppose some level of recognition, the examples of "justicia propia" above do point to that, but I don't feel that "customary" is in any way at odds with this.
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agree |
JohnMcDove
: Mmm... Yes, looks to me that "costumary law" would be the best option... (El "derecho consuetudinario" de toda la vida... ;-)
10 hrs
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Thanks, John, very kind of you, too :-)
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Discussion
"'Customary justice systems' are community-based social regulation and dispute resolution practices that are distinct from, even if influenced by and intertwined with, the state-sponsored Western-style justice system. The term encompasses a vast array of practices that vary from community to community and is not meant to imply a single, uniform system. Yet, what these practices generally have in common is their origin in longstanding localized social structures, which inform local notions of justice (Deborah Isser, ed., Customary Justice and the Rule of Law in War-Torn Societies [2011], p. 7). There is no general agreement on the terminology for these systems. Sometimes the terms “traditional justice” and “informal justice” is [sic] used."
https://www.inprol.org/rule-of-law-topics/customary-justice-...
I don't object to using "customary law" or "indigenous law"; on the contrary, I think that's almost certainly what this refers to. My only misgiving is that they are over-translating the term: supplying a more specific meaning than is explicitly present in the source to make it mean what you think it must mean.
I would argue that the sources I cited and the one you've found could be taken to suggest that "private justice" is to some extent (albeit perhaps a limited extent) established among specialists as an equivalent. Though of course established translations shouldn't necessarily be used if they're unsuitable.
I might well be wrong because I haven't been able to find any precise definition of the term or its history, but that's the albeit limited understanding I have at this time.
I did find a paper that uses the term "private justice" (https://journals.openedition.org/chs/1110) precisely in the manner you describe (it's rather interesting too), only I'm not sure whether it might be a translation (from "justicia privada"), so as I say, I'm still on the fence.