Apr 29, 2019 20:08
5 yrs ago
6 viewers *
Spanish term

Por contra de la relevancia

Spanish to English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature
I have to admit I'm completely stumped by this one. The full sentence is "Por contra de la relevancia a estas alturas de la imprenta para la difusión y lectura de las obras de entretenimiento, algunas colecciones de textos no fueron impresas."

The context is an academic paper on Golden Age literature, in particular the historical underpinnings of Cervantes's Novelas ejemplares. I'm pretty sure the author is from Spain, and I'm writing in American English.

Here's what I've done with the rest of the sentence:

**Por contra de la relevancia** at this point of the printing process for the dissemination and reading of entertaining works, some collections of texts were not printed.

Any suggestions appreciated!

Discussion

Cecilia Gowar Apr 30, 2019:
Well importance and relevance are synonyms and as I said, it is your choice how you end up writing the phrase. The meaning is the same.
Charles Davis Apr 30, 2019:
@Linda Personally I don't think that significantly departs from the meaning of the source text.
Linda Grabner (asker) Apr 30, 2019:
Thanks to all for your suggestions. Here's what I finally ended up using: "Despite the importance that printing had attained by this point for the dissemination and reading of works of entertainment, some collections of texts were never printed." This was my compromise (per the comments on the matter) between naturalness and fidelity to the original.
Charles Davis Apr 29, 2019:
@Cecilia He de decir que llevo más de veinte años viviendo en España y tampoco recuerdo haber oído ni leído esta expresión. Es un uso criticado, pero no creo que sea incorrecto; por lo menos, según parece, lo consideran aceptable algunos lingüistas muy respetables (si Manuel Seco lo admite, no voy a rechazarlo yo). Otra cosa es que nos parezca estético o que queramos imitarlo.

En cuanto al significado, como he dicho, me parece que expresa el contraste entre la publicación de muchas obras de entretenimiento y la no publicación de algunas: la idea de que lo segundo iba a contracorriente de lo primero, por así decirlo. Sigo pensando que "a pesar de que" no es exactamente lo mismo, y que si esto fuera lo que el autor queria decir, lo habría hecho. Pero en la práctica, reconozco que queda implícito.
Cecilia Gowar Apr 29, 2019:
Confieso nunca haber escuchado --ni leído-- la expresión "por contra".
Según el enlace publicado por Charles, se usa en España, lo cual probablemente equivalga a decir España peninsular. De hecho, parece ser un galicismo que terminó por instalarse. En efecto,¨par contre¨ equivale a la expresión ampliamente reconocida como correcta que esta secuencia preposicional reemplaza: Por el contrario.
Pero aún aceptando que ¨por contra¨sea de uso habitual en España, aquí tenemos una secuencia de TRES preposiciones que resulta confusa y ciertamente antiestética, aunque sería difícil dirimir si correcta o no.
Sea cual fuere la forma de expresarlo en inglés que se elija, entiendo que el significado liso y llano del párrafo es que, a pesar de que en la época en cuestión se estilaba imprimir ciertas obras para su difusión, algunas colecciones no corrieron la misma suerte.

Proposed translations

+1
1 hr
Selected

running counter to the importance

This is the best way I can think of at the moment to express what I believe it means. Perhaps someone will come up with a better idea.

"Por contra" is an established, though not very common, expression in European (not American) Spanish for "in/by contrast" or "on the other hand". It is almost certainly a calque of the French par contre. So it's a synonym of "en cambio" or "contrariamente". Fundéu considers it acceptable, but recommends using an alternative:

"Por el contrario, en cambio o contrariamente son alternativas en español a por contra, locución también aceptable en el español de España.
En los medios de comunicación es habitual encontrar frases como «El Real Madrid ganó en su campo el pasado sábado; por contra, el Atlético perdió» [...]
Pese a que tradicionalmente se ha venido censurando el uso de por contra por considerarse un calco del francés, se trata de una locución plenamente asentada en España y aparece recogida en el Diccionario del español actual, de Seco, Andrés y Ramos. Su uso resulta extraño en América, sin embargo, donde se prefieren las alternativas mencionadas."
https://www.fundeu.es/recomendacion/por-contraen-espanol-se-...

"Por contra de", by extension, basically means "in contrast to" or "contrary to". It is unusual (and indeed has no equivalent in French, where par contre de is not used in this way). But occasional examples can be found:

"Por contra de lo que ocurrió en Andalucía tras sus elecciones autonómicas, despertando la movilización de numerosos colectivos al conocer los resultados, en Valladolid han querido salir a la calle antes de las generales del 28A"
https://kaosenlared.net/video-y-fotos-el-movimiento-antifasc...

"El activista alemán ha declarado que, por contra de lo que el Tribunal ha alegado, no es un crimen sostener una fotografía de Öcalan"
https://anfespanol.com/europa/activista-aleman-seguire-exigi...

"la mayoría de delegados norteamericanos preferían la propuesta liberal, por contra de aquellos que provenían de África, Europa y Asia."
https://www.evangelicodigital.com/mundo/6025/iglesia-metodis...

So the basic idea here is the contrast between the widespread circulation of fiction in print and the existence of collections that were not printed. The "colecciones de textos no impresas" bucked the trend, as you might say. I think you might express this as "running counter to"; I'm less sure that "in contrast to" or "contrary to" really work in this context, but you might consider these too.

The other point is that, as is often the case, "relevance" is not the right word for "relevancia" here. The basic meaning of "relevancia" is importance or significance:

"relevancia
1. f. Cualidad o condición de relevante, importancia, significación."
https://dle.rae.es/?id=VpxMLGU

"relevante
1. adj. Sobresaliente, destacado.
2. adj. Importante, significativo"
https://dle.rae.es/?id=VpzDZF6

Relevant means pertinent or germane: related to the matter at hand. Sometimes "relevante" means that, but often, as here, it means important.

One or two further suggestions, if I may. For "a estas alturas" I would say "by this time", and for "obras de entretenimiento" I think "works of entertainment" would be better than "entertaining works". "Literatura de entretenimiento", a concept Cervantes addresses in the prologue to the Novelas ejemplares, really means more or less prose fiction.

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Note added at 1 hr (2019-04-29 21:53:24 GMT)
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Actually "contrary to" might work, I think.

The idea is similar to "despite", but it's not quite the same, and I'm sure that if the author had meant that he/she would have written "a pesar de" or "pese a".

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Note added at 12 hrs (2019-04-30 08:55:16 GMT)
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On the question of "naturalness", which Carol has raised. To me it's a high priority; we are always aiming to make our translations read like originals. At the same time, we are (or should be) aiming to be as faithful as possible to the author's intended meaning. There can be a trade-off. Assessing "naturalness" is subjective; if a possible rendering jars, you have to find an alternative. But our job is not to write what we ourselves would ideally have said in the context; it is to find a solution that is acceptably idiomatic and at the same time accurate. I believe my proposal meets that requirement. In my view, "naturalness" can be too narrowly conceived as what amounts to cliché, phrases that are commonplace and endlessly repeated. Now that Internet searches are so quick and easy we tend to google what we're proposing to say to see how many others have said it before, and the more we find the more "natural" we consider it. But I think this can be a fallacy.

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Note added at 1 day 1 hr (2019-04-30 21:27:02 GMT) Post-grading
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Thanks, Linda. That's a generous decision. I hope Cecilia doesn't feel hard done by.
Note from asker:
Thanks, as always, Charles, for the very detailed explanation. I found it quite helpful --if for no other reason than that it confirmed my own suspicions-- even though I ultimately ended up using "despite" in any case.
Peer comment(s):

neutral Carol Gullidge : Charles: I feel this doesn't end up as one of your best renditions into natural English :(//yes it did sound rather patronising, for which I apologise, but I stand by my verdict; I am a proponent of simple English, whether in legal, academic, etc. texts
15 mins
I rather object to your patronising tone. // Thanks :-) And my reaction was over-tetchy, for which I apologise. I still think this is perfectly idiomatic, and I really do think it matters to try to express exactly what the author is trying to say.
agree Beatriz Ramírez de Haro : Excelente explicación. Ese es sin duda el sentido, y entiendo como tú que se debe recoger, aunque sea a costa de una llaneza o naturalidad que tampoco existe en el original. En cualquier caso, "contrary to" parece una solución correcta.
1 hr
Muchas gracias, Bea :-)
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Although I did not end up using "running counter to", I did concur with so much of the rest of your explanation that it must be overall considered the must helpful."
+3
15 mins

Despite the relevance

I believe the original Spanish is flawed and they meant to say "a pesar de la relevancia".

What's more, I found myself caring about the central characters and – despite the relevance of blood in the story – I'm delighted to report that ...
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/oct/05/truth-about-ce...
Note from asker:
Thank you Cecilia. I ended up combining yours and Charles's suggestions.
Peer comment(s):

agree Carol Gullidge : this sounds natural in EN
1 hr
Thanks Carol!
agree neilmac : "Despite" is what I was thinking as well…
14 hrs
Thanks Neil!
agree Marian Vieyra
21 hrs
Thanks Marian!
Something went wrong...
+1
23 mins

Irrespective of their merits

Or, “importance” instead of “merits.”

It seems that the intended meaning here is that many works worthy of the widest possible diffusion were not published and distributed during the period in question (for whatever reason).
Note from asker:
Thank you, Robert.
Peer comment(s):

agree Carol Gullidge : I like "irrespective" and "importance"
1 hr
Something went wrong...
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