Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Spanish term or phrase:
atópico
English translation:
(a figure standing outside / transcending) time, place and convention
Added to glossary by
Charles Davis
Jul 18, 2019 22:33
4 yrs ago
3 viewers *
Spanish term
Argentina
Multilingual Experts
Native in: English (Variants: US, Canadian, UK) 
Works in: English, Spanish to English, English to Spanish, and 12 more.
atópico
Spanish to English
Art/Literary
Poetry & Literature
FRom a text by an Argentine professor:
Barthes perfeccionaba en esos años una figura acrónica, atópica y atípica, la del profesor-semiólogo-crítico-artista, para quien la enseñanza es una “excursión fantasmática”, una figura que él mismo explica en casi todos los cursos, pero queda meridianamente clara en el comienzo del seminario sobre “Lo neutro”.
The only use of "atopic" I am seeing on the web is related to a skin disease. I think I know that she is getting out someone without a topic, perhaps something like meandering...but obviously the use of three words that start with "a" is important: "timeless, subject-less, and ..." any ideas?
Thanks
Barthes perfeccionaba en esos años una figura acrónica, atópica y atípica, la del profesor-semiólogo-crítico-artista, para quien la enseñanza es una “excursión fantasmática”, una figura que él mismo explica en casi todos los cursos, pero queda meridianamente clara en el comienzo del seminario sobre “Lo neutro”.
The only use of "atopic" I am seeing on the web is related to a skin disease. I think I know that she is getting out someone without a topic, perhaps something like meandering...but obviously the use of three words that start with "a" is important: "timeless, subject-less, and ..." any ideas?
Thanks
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +5 | (a figure standing outside / transcending) time, place and convention |
Charles Davis
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| 3 | disoriented |
Juan Arturo Blackmore Zerón
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| 3 | unconventional - not stereotyped - nontrivial |
JohnMcDove
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Change log
Jul 25, 2019 21:25: Charles Davis Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+5
39 mins
Selected
(a figure standing outside / transcending) time, place and convention
I think the only way of dealing with this, as you've suggested in your question, is to rework it completely. I can't see any way of reproducing, or even adapting, the verbal effect of the original. You could use "atemporal" for acrónico, and of course "atypical" for atípico, but I can't come up with anything comparable for atópico. And in that case I think it's better to abandon that approach completely and find another way of treating all three similarly.
It's a special use of the word anyway; in Spanish atópico is a medical term too. I'm sure that the writer is using it to mean "without place", just as acrónico means "without time". The a– prefix means "non" (as in amoral, for example), and in Greek chronos means time and topos means place. So acrónica, atópica means timeless, placeless (literally): of no time and no place.
Then again, atópico has surely been used to set up the wordplay with atípico. We can't preserve that either, because I really don't think we can imitate the Spanish and call him "atopical"; no one will understand it.
"Timeless" would work. "Placeless" would be a bit forced. But then what do you do with atípico? I can't think of a "–less" word for that.
So I offer a modest proposal to get round these problems. This is one of those cases where you have to deal with the whole phrase.
It's a special use of the word anyway; in Spanish atópico is a medical term too. I'm sure that the writer is using it to mean "without place", just as acrónico means "without time". The a– prefix means "non" (as in amoral, for example), and in Greek chronos means time and topos means place. So acrónica, atópica means timeless, placeless (literally): of no time and no place.
Then again, atópico has surely been used to set up the wordplay with atípico. We can't preserve that either, because I really don't think we can imitate the Spanish and call him "atopical"; no one will understand it.
"Timeless" would work. "Placeless" would be a bit forced. But then what do you do with atípico? I can't think of a "–less" word for that.
So I offer a modest proposal to get round these problems. This is one of those cases where you have to deal with the whole phrase.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Andy Watkinson
9 mins
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Cheers, Andy :-)
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| agree |
Chema Nieto Castañón
: Very nice, as usual! ;)
3 hrs
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Thanks very much, Chema ;-)
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| agree |
Carol Gullidge
: Or maybe (just possibly) “unfettered by” all those things you mention... Either way, IMO, this is a good solution!
8 hrs
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Thanks very much, Carol! I like "unfettered" very much.
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| agree |
neilmac
: 'Unfettered' is great too... :)
8 hrs
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Many thanks, Neil ;-) Carol has a flair for finding the right word.
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| agree |
Clarkalo
1 day 39 mins
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Thanks a lot, Clarkalo :-)
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "thanks so much!"
5 hrs
Juan Arturo Blackmore Zerón
Mexico
Mexico
Native in Spanish
Specializes in field
Mexico
Confianza, certeza, creatividad.
Native in: Spanish (Variant: Mexican)
Works in: English to Spanish, Italian to Spanish, French to Spanish, and 6 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
disoriented
Atópico, desubicado, fuera de lugar.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
JohnMcDove
: This does not ring right in this context. (My own interpretation may be off, but this is not the meaning one can get out of the context.)
6 days
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5 days
JohnMcDove
United States
United States
Native in Spanish
Specializes in field
United States
Related KudoZ points
:
16
unconventional - not stereotyped - nontrivial
timeless, unconventional, atypical
The way I read the original is that "a-tópico" means "non-trite"
Any antonym for these would work,
NOT -
hackneyed, banal, clichéd, platitudinous, vapid, commonplace, ordinary, common, stock, conventional, stereotyped, predictable
Even "nontrivial" might work.
https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/nontrivial
In Spanish I am used to the typical expression "tópico típico" which is the "typical hackneyed expression"
By the same token "atópico - atípico" its its opposite.
6. m. Ret. Lugar común que la retórica antigua convirtió en fórmulas o clichés fijos y admitidos en esquemas formales o conceptuales de que se sirvieron los escritores con frecuencia. U. m. en pl.
https://dle.rae.es/?id=a2Y9ZVb
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Note added at 5 days (2019-07-24 21:42:20 GMT)
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Es el típico tópico por excelencia. Vagos hay en todos lados. No tienen por qué ser los andaluces. De hecho, durante mi infancia, raro era el padre andaluz que ...
http://www.tulane.edu/~howard/DiaEsp/andaluz.html
Dejadme enumerar algunos de los tópicos típicos.
Marchando una de tópicos típicos de Nochevieja
http://mindfulnesscongenero.com/una-de-topicos-tipicos-por-f...
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Note added at 6 days (2019-07-24 22:40:51 GMT)
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"Non-commonplace" would fit the bill perfectly.
... it meets the requirements of originality and non-commonplace.
https://books.google.com/books?id=lIhICRQEk2IC&pg=PA125&lpg=...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Barthes
The way I read the original is that "a-tópico" means "non-trite"
Any antonym for these would work,
NOT -
hackneyed, banal, clichéd, platitudinous, vapid, commonplace, ordinary, common, stock, conventional, stereotyped, predictable
Even "nontrivial" might work.
https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/nontrivial
In Spanish I am used to the typical expression "tópico típico" which is the "typical hackneyed expression"
By the same token "atópico - atípico" its its opposite.
6. m. Ret. Lugar común que la retórica antigua convirtió en fórmulas o clichés fijos y admitidos en esquemas formales o conceptuales de que se sirvieron los escritores con frecuencia. U. m. en pl.
https://dle.rae.es/?id=a2Y9ZVb
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 days (2019-07-24 21:42:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Es el típico tópico por excelencia. Vagos hay en todos lados. No tienen por qué ser los andaluces. De hecho, durante mi infancia, raro era el padre andaluz que ...
http://www.tulane.edu/~howard/DiaEsp/andaluz.html
Dejadme enumerar algunos de los tópicos típicos.
Marchando una de tópicos típicos de Nochevieja
http://mindfulnesscongenero.com/una-de-topicos-tipicos-por-f...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 days (2019-07-24 22:40:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"Non-commonplace" would fit the bill perfectly.
... it meets the requirements of originality and non-commonplace.
https://books.google.com/books?id=lIhICRQEk2IC&pg=PA125&lpg=...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Barthes
Discussion
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/83560922.pdf
"Atópico, según la RAE, es lo que no está ligado a un lugar preciso."
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/11998750.pdf
"Atopía" means "no place", just as "utopía" means good/ideal place.
If it means unconventional, then it's more or less redundant, since "atópico" and "atípico" are saying almost the same thing. Conversely, time and place are an extremely common couplet, and since "acrónico" is obviously to do with time I think it's very likely that "atópico" is to do with place.
The term is from Greek ἀτοπία meaning "the state of being out of place", "absurdity".
El término atopia (del griego a + topos, "sin lugar", "desubicado"). You could use 'placeless', though that would make 'atípca' difficult to translate.