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Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

entstanden sein

English translation:

to be accepted as such

Added to glossary by Jaime Hyland
Jun 13, 2012 09:28
11 yrs ago
2 viewers *
German term

entstanden und vererblich

German to English Law/Patents Law: Contract(s) Employment contract
"Der Anspruch ist entstanden und vererblich und wird mit rechtlicher Beendigung des Arbeitsverhältnisses am 31.05.2013 zahlungsfällig"

This expression is contained in a termination of employment contract. The "Anspruch" referred to is the redundancy compensation to be received by the soon-to-be ex-employee.

Any ideas what it actually means?

TIA

Jaime
Proposed translations (English)
4 the entitlement is accepted as such and is also hereditary
3 the entitlement has arisen and is hereditary
Change log

Jun 13, 2012 09:31: Charles Davis changed "Language pair" from "Spanish to English" to "German to English"

Jun 27, 2012 11:01: Jaime Hyland Created KOG entry

Discussion

Joseph Given (X) Jun 13, 2012:
And that seems to be the question of heritability. Whether the Anspruch is also heritable or whether the employer says "no, he/she is dead, it is no longer payable". There was a case (a little bit) like this in Germany recently: http://www.sueddeutsche.de/karriere/urteil-am-bundesarbeitsg...
Very sad, when you think the family probably has very little money (he was a truck driver) and are being portrayed as greedy. The poor man worked through his holidays, and the family got neither him nor the money he earned in the end. In fact it makes me veritably (though thankfully not heritably) angry.
Vikki Pendleton Jun 13, 2012:
I'm probably the most pingelig person I know... my confusion/the reason for my question was that surely, once the money is paid, it's obviously in the estate? I've never heard of redundancy payments - or any other payments - being taken away again when someone dies! But I could see that clarification might be necessary as to the situation if the individual dies before the payment date.
Joseph Given (X) Jun 13, 2012:
I could get really pingelig here and say no the "entitlement" will become part of his/her heritable estate.
:)
Vikki Pendleton Jun 13, 2012:
So the idea is that if the employee dies between now and 31/5/13 then the money will form part of his estate?
Joseph Given (X) Jun 13, 2012:
Just on the subject of hereditary: I think of hereditary peerage, etc... One example of how progress (in this case genetics) has caused a shift in meaning to heritable over hereditary. I don't think it would be confusing, but heritable is the better word.
Jaime Hyland (asker) Jun 13, 2012:
The system will allow me to choose an answer in about 24 hours, I think.

Your answer seems to me the better of the two at the moment "is accepted as such" seems a correct and elegant solution to me to the main problem I had with the expression
Joseph Given (X) Jun 13, 2012:
I am new here so still finding my feet in these discussions. how should one know when the discussion is closed? I'm a bit confused about that.
Jaime Hyland (asker) Jun 13, 2012:
I agree; I have used "heritable"
Horst Huber (X) Jun 13, 2012:
With opolt. "Hereditary" would be slightly confusing.
opolt Jun 13, 2012:
Hm how about ... ... "The/This title shall/will be created, as an inheritable right, upon ... termination ... by [date]"?

Proposed translations

2 hrs
Selected

the entitlement is accepted as such and is also hereditary

I know that is not the same as entstanden (occured), but it has to do with the entitlement being of a recognised naure

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Note added at 2 hrs (2012-06-13 11:51:06 GMT)
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[nature]

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Note added at 4 days (2012-06-17 11:18:53 GMT)
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On the subject of hereditary/heritable: I think of hereditary peerage, etc... Heritable is doubtless the better word in this context, but it's one example of how progress (in this case in the field of genetics) causes shifts in meaning.
Note from asker:
Your answer seems the most logical one so far in terms of "entstanden". I'm not yet sure "hereditary" is the best term for "vererblich" though. Would something like "heritable" or "inheritable" not be better. "Hereditary" sounds biological. Maybe it's the fact that I've been reading too much about genetics!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Many thanks for your help!"
1 hr

the entitlement has arisen and is hereditary

entitlement to a claim (of compensation) was triggered and can be passed on to next of kin
Note from asker:
Thanks for your contribution, Michael. I think, the expression "ist entstanden" is a nod by the soon-to-be-ex-employer that the employee is entitled to the entitlement, if you know what I means.
Peer comment(s):
neutral opolt : Not sure but from the context, despite the orig. German phrasing, it's pretty obvious to me that this refers to a future (not past) event.
5 mins
Thanks for that insight, opolt!
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