| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Survey on workstations and health: how do long working hours affect you? Thread poster: Emma Goldsmith
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Emma Goldsmith 
Spain
Local time: 11:18
Member (2004)
Spanish to English
Please complete the survey below to tell me about your work set-up, break strategies, and upper-body aches and pains:
https://ec.europa.eu/eusurvey/runner/ERGO2023
This survey follows a shorter one I ran a few years ago on keyboards, typing techniques and wris... See more Please complete the survey below to tell me about your work set-up, break strategies, and upper-body aches and pains:
https://ec.europa.eu/eusurvey/runner/ERGO2023
This survey follows a shorter one I ran a few years ago on keyboards, typing techniques and wrist problems. Although the results were interesting, I realised the research scope needed to be broader, to include other variables that might affect our eyes and musculoskeletal system, such as age, sex, desk ergonomics in general, exercise and breaks.
Please also share the survey link in your social media networks and associations. By sharing, you'll help me get more reliable and relevant results. The more data, the better!
Apart from the survey, I'd also love to discuss personal experiences here: What workstation equipment would you recommend to others? How do long working hours affect you? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:18
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| My experience | Mar 10, 2023 |
Emma Goldsmith wrote:
Apart from the survey, I'd also love to discuss personal experiences here: What workstation equipment would you recommend to others? How do long working hours affect you?
By coincidence I came across and completed Emma's survey a few days ago. Not difficult or intrusive, and it's a worthy project.
I've had a few problems over the years. I have always been a desk worker and a PC user. I contracted some kind of RSI in 2003/2004 that prompted me to move to an ergonomic keyboard, which did help. When I started to type more after becoming a full-time freelance translator, it flared up again in 2015/2016, to the point I could no longer work. I have found ways to work around this and other issues, and my advice to others suffering from similar problems would be along the following lines.
- Use an ergonomic keyboard, preferably split and tilted, to reduce rotation of the wrists and arms. There are many such on the market. I would begin with the Microsoft LXM-00004 or the more expensive Sculpt. I use a custom-built keyboard based on the Sofle design. I also quite like the carefully designed UHK, which is very customisable and beautifully finished. Mechanical key switches are not what make a keyboard ergonomically superior - avoid rectangular shapes!
- Use an ergonomic pointing device to reduce hand/arm/shoulder movement. I use a trackball, some people use a vertical mouse, some people use a Contour Rollermouse - again, have a look on Amazon. Try a few, see what you like.
- Use a stand/sit desk and change your posture frequently - the best position is your next one. The height of the desk should be adjustable, and ideally motorised (LINAK is the gold standard for the components). It is better to mix sitting and standing because a good chair may not be enough to ward off problems longer term, but if you are going to sit, make sure you...
- Use a good chair, but don't grow roots in it. Take frequent breaks. I used a Herman Miller Aeron fully ergonomic chair with all the bells and whistles for nearly 20 years, in the office and at home, but it didn't prevent my back from going last year after two very long days of work. As a result I could no longer sit without pain, and although I have more or less recovered I have not sat down to work since the spring of 2022. Instead I stand for timed 30-minute chunks then walk off or sit down near my desk to rest for 5-10 minutes. It's a kind of accidental pomodoro approach and I find it works very well for me, as I can set a goal for the next half-hour and work towards it.
- Use speech/voice recognition. This software not magic, and you'll still need a keyboard, but it does significantly reduce typing, and can also be used to automate many tasks. Both Apple and Microsoft offer these free of charge as part of their respective operating systems. Nuance offers its Dragon system, which is expensive but probably still the best product out there.
Most of the above cost money and many are downright expensive. Being unable to work at any speed because of bodily pain is even more expensive, because your income falls sharply.
These principles apply not only to translators but to anybody sat in front of a PC all day (coders and other IT people). Movement and exercise are so important, but I had been working out at least twice a week for several years at the time I hurt my back and was in good shape, so - for older people in particular - exercise alone may not be enough to offset the cumulative impact of long periods sitting at a desk.
Regards,
Dan
PS many variations on this image have been created, but this one is taken from here
| | | | | A couple more things... | Mar 11, 2023 |
on top of Dan's recommendations: I use a vertical mouse, and I never suffered from wrist pain again. Also, I recommend a height-adjustable desk, so you can work standing up if you experience back pain (like me). I've had two bouts of sciatica recently and it wasn't fun (one of the worst pain I ever experienced after my kidney stone, followed closely by colitis). But you need to invest money, because if your body breaks, your bank account will follow shortly after...
| | | | | Started it but | Mar 11, 2023 |
I started the survey but some questions do not have answers I can click. First of all, I do not sit only for work but also to read and draw - my art teacher constantly advises me to get an easel so I can stand but I cannot get used to standing and drawing. Indeed, I move about more when painting with acrylics or using charcoal since both are very messy and I have to properly wash the brushes or my hands, but not so much with water colour. Question about a chair, I work a lot on a bed with a seat... See more I started the survey but some questions do not have answers I can click. First of all, I do not sit only for work but also to read and draw - my art teacher constantly advises me to get an easel so I can stand but I cannot get used to standing and drawing. Indeed, I move about more when painting with acrylics or using charcoal since both are very messy and I have to properly wash the brushes or my hands, but not so much with water colour. Question about a chair, I work a lot on a bed with a seat which has a back so I sit up straight but there's no option for another answer in that question. Eye problems- I moved to another room with more light and have more breaks but answer does not provide these options. 5.3-I don't use any but there is no such option. But the survey made me think about possibilities. ▲ Collapse
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Emma Goldsmith
Spain
Local time: 11:18
Member (2004)
Spanish to English
TOPIC STARTER | Survey responses are optional! | Mar 11, 2023 |
Josephine Cassar wrote:
I started the survey but some questions do not have answers I can click.
No problem, no questions are compulsory so you can just skip them.
I do not sit only for work but also to read and draw
Good point – people sit to eat, watch TV, read and, in your case, draw (what a fab hobby!). However, those activities are beyond the scope of this survey, which focuses exclusively on the impact of working at a computer.
Question about a chair, I work a lot on a bed with a seat which has a back so I sit up straight but there's no option for another answer
You could select Other solution. Then a free-text field pops up and you can expand your answer.
Eye problems- I moved to another room with more light and have more breaks but answer does not provide these options.
You could consider marking the option environmental adjustments (lighting, etc.) and maybe adding the point about more breaks in the Any Comments field at the end?
5.3 [other ergonomic accessories] -I don't use any but there is no such option.
No problem skipping a question! In fact, that one specifically says select any that apply or leave blank.
But the survey made me think about possibilities.
That's great!
| | | | Jo Macdonald
Spain
Local time: 11:18
Italian to English
+ ...
| Computer specs | Mar 13, 2023 |
Glasses with a focal length that make you sit straight because the text on the screen is in focus when you're that far away from the screen, instead of leaning forward to see it.
Reading glasses will make you lean towards the screen for example as the focal length is about 40-50 cm, the distance you'd hold a book. The focal length of work/computer specs is about 70-80 cm, better for a straight posture and your eyes. You can get them made with the focal length you want.
... See more Glasses with a focal length that make you sit straight because the text on the screen is in focus when you're that far away from the screen, instead of leaning forward to see it.
Reading glasses will make you lean towards the screen for example as the focal length is about 40-50 cm, the distance you'd hold a book. The focal length of work/computer specs is about 70-80 cm, better for a straight posture and your eyes. You can get them made with the focal length you want.
Agree a sit/stand desk or riser is a great thing to use in combination with a chair, sometimes standing, sometimes sitting. Also take a look at the Varier Balans, great work rocking/kneeling stool.
Get out and look at things far away, work out every day, sports at least once a week, especially as we get older. We're designed to roam, hunt, look for food. Sitting at a desk staring at pixels on a screen for years is not good for you.
[Edited at 2023-03-13 10:02 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Agree with this... | Mar 13, 2023 |
Jo Macdonald wrote:
Glasses with a focal length that make you sit straight because the text on the screen is in focus when you're that far away from the screen, instead of leaning forward to see it.
I have a pair of glasses I only use when working in front of the PC.
| | | | Emma Goldsmith
Spain
Local time: 11:18
Member (2004)
Spanish to English
TOPIC STARTER
Some great recommendations, guys!
Here's the survey link again, in case anyone is reading this thread for the first time:
https://ec.europa.eu/eusurvey/runner/ERGO2023
And here's my set-up. Not a recommendation, because we're all different, so my workstation won't necessarily work for others.
... See more Some great recommendations, guys!
Here's the survey link again, in case anyone is reading this thread for the first time:
https://ec.europa.eu/eusurvey/runner/ERGO2023
And here's my set-up. Not a recommendation, because we're all different, so my workstation won't necessarily work for others.
- Chair: Steelcase Think 1 (recently changed from an Ikea desk chair with fixed-height arm rests that meant I couldn't relax my shoulders)
- Desk: handmade, pine, which I love, but it's 20 years old now and the built-in shelf is now a major limit on screen height – 20 yrs ago screens were much smaller
- Keyboard: mechanical Razer Blackwidow tenkeyless. Love the compact size, to make sure my mouse is as near as poss. Love the linear red-cherry-like key touch
- Numpad: Separate "A Sixx" number pad, positioned the far side of the mouse
- Mice: Logitech MX Anywhere 2 and 3. I use two mice, one either side of the KB, to distribute mouse use almost equally in left and right hands. I'm not ambidextrous, but I've learnt to use a mouse with my left hand over the past 5 years.
- Monitors: Dell 25” U2515H and Dell 24” P2416D
- Glasses: Like Jo and Giovanni, I use fixed-distance specs for computer only. With two biggish monitors, varifocals are hopeless for computer work, IMO.
 ▲ Collapse
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I use the Herman Miller Aeron chair too... not cheap, but it's great... and I work with 3 monitors... 
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:18
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
I use the Herman Miller Aeron chair too... not cheap, but it's great...
Agreed. I've had my "home" one for over twenty years (think I bought it in 2001 or 2002) and it is still going strong. One part broke in 2015, but I was able to purchase a replacement part and fit it myself easily - there's a plentiful supply of such components. So while it's certainly expensive initially, you get durability and repairability in addition to comfort and superior ergonomics.
I also have the Varier Balans recommended by Jo earlier in the thread. If I were still sitting down to work I wouldn't like to sit in it full time, but it would be fine for short periods, and a welcome change from a standard chair. Changing chairs and positions is good.
Dan
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 11:18
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
I will ask everyone a couple of questions:
- where are your elbows and forearm as you work, are they hanging? If supported, how are they suported, something soft snd cushioned or else?
- has anyone tried pendulum sit/stand chairs? In case of standing versions I would call it assisted standing, you are standing, but your tailbone and spine is supported? Just plain standing, I see a lot of problems with it (ankle, knee pain, etc.... See more I will ask everyone a couple of questions:
- where are your elbows and forearm as you work, are they hanging? If supported, how are they suported, something soft snd cushioned or else?
- has anyone tried pendulum sit/stand chairs? In case of standing versions I would call it assisted standing, you are standing, but your tailbone and spine is supported? Just plain standing, I see a lot of problems with it (ankle, knee pain, etc.). Example: https://www.posturite.co.uk/blog/the-5-best-wobble-stools They are usually very expensive, staring at €300-400, so I wouldn’t risk it as it may not suit me at all. I am always a little cautious about backless chairs.
Nice setting Emma, but having a wall as a backdrop would affect me psychologically. I need to have a window on that side.
Otherwise, a great lecture: https://youtu.be/S7emPAZByLk ▲ Collapse
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:18
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| It's not standing that's the problem | Mar 15, 2023 |
Lingua 5B wrote:
Just plain standing, I see a lot of problems with it
I absolutely do not. Standing and walking is what homo sapiens does! The problems come from not standing - sitting at a desk all day is a very recent development in our evolutionary history.
If you decide to try standing, listen to your body and take it slowly, and sit when you feel like it.
One thing I do find is that while standing I move a great deal. I shift my feet, I transfer my weight from foot to foot, I raise one foot and prop it on the other knee, I rotate my body to left and right - these things are not possible in a chair.
My view is that nothing is as bad for the body, particularly the back, as being frozen in one position.
With regard to arms, mine are bent at a bit more than 90 degrees (100-110), and the heels of my hands are supported on gel wrist rests, so that my fingers are free to move.
Regards,
Dan
[Edited at 2023-03-15 11:08 GMT]
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Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 11:18
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| You are standing at one spot? | Mar 15, 2023 |
Yes, but you are standing at one spot? You are tethered to a screen either way.
Glad it works for you. So nobody is using wobble style chairs?
I tried standing and experienced pains. It’s OK for short sessions, but not for professional sessions. Also I noticed I was slower and my mind works differently while standing.
I asked a doctor whether it was better to sit or stand while working, she said it depends how you sit and it depends how you stand.
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:18
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| nur der Thäter lernt | Mar 15, 2023 |
Lingua 5B wrote:
Glad it works for you.
It's working for me because I gave it a chance, rather than rationalising why it wouldn't work before I tried it. "No kicks, no goals", as legendary centre forward Freddy Nietzsche is reported to have said.
[Edit]
To expand on this slightly, if one tries standing while working, one should not attempt to go from 100% sitting to 100% standing immediately. I did it that way because sitting was much more painful than standing, but it was still hard: I got tired and my legs and feet got sore at first. As I said above, "If you decide to try standing, listen to your body and take it slowly, and sit when you feel like it." Now I don't get discomfort, but I do "rest" regularly even if I don't feel I need it.
It would probably take weeks for most people to acclimatise to a new physical approach to working. There is little point in standing up for 20 minutes and saying "Well, this sucks." It is unlikely to feel natural at the start, certainly, and it may not feel natural at the end of your experiment either. If you spend a month or two trying this approach and it's still uncomfortable, then you probably shouldn't continue. But remember that the structure of the body is on our side: humans evolved to stand, walk and run around all day, not sit in ergonomic chairs.
While there is a mental aspect to standing to work, it is ultimately a physical process. It's a matter of giving your body a chance to learn new patterns in the hope that this leads to better health over the long term. Like learning to play tennis, you cannot force it to happen overnight. By the same token, you cannot evaluate it overnight.
Dan
[Edited at 2023-03-15 13:07 GMT]
| | | | | I thought.... | Mar 15, 2023 |
Dan Lucas wrote:
One part broke in 2015, but I was able to purchase a replacement part and fit it myself easily - there's a plentiful supply of such components. So while it's certainly expensive initially, you get durability and repairability in addition to comfort and superior ergonomics.
they were guaranteed for life? Maybe not...
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