When is a language question not a language question? KudoZ Q removed Thread poster: Lia Fail (X)
|
|---|
Lia Fail (X) 
Spain
Local time: 00:50
Spanish to English
+ ...
I asked help with "interpreting" a short phrase tagged on at the end of a description of a ministry's functions. I was confused by a casual reference to "youth" in a long sentence about gender discrimination.
The Q was removed. Reason: not a language Q.
If I'd asked for a "translation" of "elefantiasis", despite the fact that it's transparent, in dictionaries and easily found in Google, it would have stayed.
I can't understand people who fail to appreciate ... See more I asked help with "interpreting" a short phrase tagged on at the end of a description of a ministry's functions. I was confused by a casual reference to "youth" in a long sentence about gender discrimination.
The Q was removed. Reason: not a language Q.
If I'd asked for a "translation" of "elefantiasis", despite the fact that it's transparent, in dictionaries and easily found in Google, it would have stayed.
I can't understand people who fail to appreciate that translation is not something one does by slotting dictionary equivalents into spaces!
Here's my source sentence in ES and a draft translation, with a literal translation of the bothersome phrase:
El Ministerio de Igualdad es el departamento de la Administración General del Estado al que corresponde la propuesta y ejecución de las políticas del Gobierno en materia de igualdad, eliminación de toda clase de discriminación de las personas por razón de sexo, origen racial o étnico, religión o ideología, orientación sexual, edad o cualquier otra condición o circunstancia personal o social, y erradicación de la violencia de género, ****así como en materia de juventud***
The Ministry of Equality is the department of the AGE responsible for proposing and implementing government policy in matters of equality, eliminating all kinds of discrimination for reasons of sex, racial or ethnic origin, religion or ideology, sexual orientation, age or any other condition or personal or social circumstances, and erradicating gender violence, ***and also in matters concerning young people***.
Note that I have no difficulty with ANY of the words, "big" or "small" in this sentence fragment. Note that no decent dictionary would exclude any of those 6 words in Spanish.
What's the point of KudoZ if we can't resolve there, through brainstorming and advice, the kind of problems that dictionaries don't and will never be able to resolve?
[Edited at 2009-07-11 16:11 GMT]
[Edited at 2009-07-11 16:20 GMT]
[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2009-07-11 19:58 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | How did you ask the above question? | Jul 11, 2009 |
I don't see anything wrong with the phrase as a question, but maybe the way you asked was not according to the KudoZ rules.
If your question was I don't know how to translate the following phrase into English "así como en materia de juventud" in this context and adding the whole sentence or paragraph which includes the target phrase, I think it wouldn't have been removed.
| | | | | I agree with you Lia | Jul 11, 2009 |
A few years ago they introduced a limit on the number of words in a phrase you can ask a question about and, in the process, we all lost a great resource that was at our disposal. It was wonderful when a translator could raise a doubt like that and get help with it, or even sometimes a translator would say I just can't think anymore, please help.
However too many people have nothing better to do that complain about the nature of kudoz questions, so this rule was introduced and we all lost... See more A few years ago they introduced a limit on the number of words in a phrase you can ask a question about and, in the process, we all lost a great resource that was at our disposal. It was wonderful when a translator could raise a doubt like that and get help with it, or even sometimes a translator would say I just can't think anymore, please help.
However too many people have nothing better to do that complain about the nature of kudoz questions, so this rule was introduced and we all lost out.
As for you query, at a guess I would say it might be referring to "gender and youth-related violence"
PS I have a fellow translator that I skype that type of query to, feel free to skype me, you'll find the address in my profile, but allow for time differences. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Adam Łobatiuk
Poland
Local time: 00:50
Member (2009)
English to Polish
+ ...
| OT (sort of) - the meaning | Jul 11, 2009 |
My Spanish is still far from being even basic, but your English sentence makes a lot of sense to me as it is. They simply propose and implement policy in matters of equality and young people. It could be about employment, education (loans?), maybe also juvenile crime.
| | |
|
|
|
| I don't know the exact situtation, but... | Jul 11, 2009 |
There is a rule about the length of the phrase you can ask, and that is max. 10 words. It seems to me the phrase you asked was within that limit. It also seems to me this WAS a language question, so unless the way you posted it made it appear something else, there was no reason to remove it based on that criterion.
Again, I have no idea how you posted the question, but this is what I do in similar situations.
Case 1:
If I have a term or a phrase that I need help with, I ... See more There is a rule about the length of the phrase you can ask, and that is max. 10 words. It seems to me the phrase you asked was within that limit. It also seems to me this WAS a language question, so unless the way you posted it made it appear something else, there was no reason to remove it based on that criterion.
Again, I have no idea how you posted the question, but this is what I do in similar situations.
Case 1:
If I have a term or a phrase that I need help with, I put the term/phrase itself in the question field (only the term/phrase, that is within the length limit), and copy the entire sentence or paragraph to the explanation field for context. I also explain why I have trouble understanding the phrase, what research I have done and what my guesses are.
Case 2:
If I have trouble understanding the whole sentence, or part of it that is more than a phrase, I post it as a monolingual question (in the source - source pair), and ask for explanation or rephrasing. This is where natives of the source language can be of great help. Once I understand the structure of the sentence, and the basic idea it tries to convey, I may be able to translate the sentence. If I still need help with a specific term in the sentence, I can post it as a translation question in the source-target pair. (See Case 1.)
Back to your case:
If you posted your question perfectly in line with the KudoZ-rules, then the removal was not justified. Remember that moderators are also people and they make mistakes. Some moderators are also very new to the job. Also, KudoZ-questions can be removed by other users called KudoZ-editors, not only by moderators. If you look up the question with the link you got when you posted it, I think the display shows who removed your question. If you think the removal was not justified, you can always submit a support request.
I hope this helps
Katalin
[Edited at 2009-07-11 17:29 GMT]
[Edited at 2009-07-11 17:30 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Natalie
Poland
Local time: 00:50
Member (2002)
English to Russian
+ ...
MODERATOR SITE LOCALIZER
The best way would be to contact a moderator (there are three mods in your pair, so one of them would be available for sure).
In the meantime I restored your question; if you would like to change the pair to Spanish monolingual, please let me know.
Best,
Natalia
P.S. It looks like the main problem with your question was in what you have put into the question line ("ES legislation oddity") which was your comment and not the phrase to be translated)
... See more The best way would be to contact a moderator (there are three mods in your pair, so one of them would be available for sure).
In the meantime I restored your question; if you would like to change the pair to Spanish monolingual, please let me know.
Best,
Natalia
P.S. It looks like the main problem with your question was in what you have put into the question line ("ES legislation oddity") which was your comment and not the phrase to be translated)
[Edited at 2009-07-11 20:08 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Applying any rule blindly is just plain stupid, as simple as that | Jul 12, 2009 |
I couldn't agree more with you Lia! You can have the most simple word in such a context that it becomes extremely difficult to translate.
But there's also a problem with some of the people that answer questions, not everyone of course. But I've seen so many times that the context or 20-line explanation is completely ignored, a person copies the whole entry straight from the dictionary, adds a few synonyms and gets 20 agrees. A... See more I couldn't agree more with you Lia! You can have the most simple word in such a context that it becomes extremely difficult to translate.
But there's also a problem with some of the people that answer questions, not everyone of course. But I've seen so many times that the context or 20-line explanation is completely ignored, a person copies the whole entry straight from the dictionary, adds a few synonyms and gets 20 agrees. And on top of that, you get comments like "use a dictionary!", "read the rules!" WTF! (pardon my French.) Rules at important but using your brain is even more important.
Sorry for the rant, but that's one of things I hate the most about KudoZ. I fully sympathize with you.
PS. I have to say that my comment is not targeted at the moderator that removed Lia's question, I'm talking in a broader sense.
[Edited at 2009-07-12 01:53 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | tazdog (X)
Spain
Local time: 00:50
Spanish to English
+ ...
| that IS a language question | Jul 12, 2009 |
I just had a look at the question that was squashed and has now been restored. I don't think it should ever have been squashed, period (I have squashing rights and wouldn't have done it). If it was squashed because of the "term asked" phrasing, as Natalie said, it's probably because the person who squashed it didn't take the time to read what you were asking and thought you were asking about the legislation itself. As Claudia said, NOT READING what the asker posts by way of explanation, backgrou... See more I just had a look at the question that was squashed and has now been restored. I don't think it should ever have been squashed, period (I have squashing rights and wouldn't have done it). If it was squashed because of the "term asked" phrasing, as Natalie said, it's probably because the person who squashed it didn't take the time to read what you were asking and thought you were asking about the legislation itself. As Claudia said, NOT READING what the asker posts by way of explanation, background, etc. is a common problem in Kudoz, as people race to see if they can post the first answer. I've seen it time and time again.
My two cents (and I've left two more in your question). ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Natalie
Poland
Local time: 00:50
Member (2002)
English to Russian
+ ...
MODERATOR SITE LOCALIZER | Just to make things clear | Jul 12, 2009 |
Claudia Alvis wrote:
...my comment is not targeted at the moderator that removed Lia's question
It was not a moderator who removed Lia's question, it was one of members who has the "KudoZ editors' " rights. Of course, the squasher did not read the question attentively, however, the text entered in the question line was misleading.
In any case, I believe that the problem has been solved and Lia will get helpful answers.
Have a great Sunday, everybody.
Natalia
| | | | Lia Fail (X)
Spain
Local time: 00:50
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks everybody. I dropped the issue because once I'd let off steam I was heartsick. I stopped answering Qs first, now I've stop asking them.
| | | | | Looks like a language matter to me... | Aug 27, 2009 |
I don't quite see how it cannot be a language question.
| | | |
Lia Fail wrote:
Thanks everybody. I dropped the issue because once I'd let off steam I was heartsick. I stopped answering Qs first, now I've stop asking them.
I think you'll find that this approach is the way forward. It's what all the smart kids have decided to do - certainly in Fr-Eng, there is scarcely a decent contributor to be seen from one day to the next. And it helps keep you sane. There is little point in kicking against the pricks.
| | | | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » When is a language question not a language question? KudoZ Q removed | Wordfast Pro | Translation Memory Software for Any Platform
Exclusive discount for ProZ.com users!
Save over 13% when purchasing Wordfast Pro through ProZ.com. Wordfast is the world's #1 provider of platform-independent Translation Memory software. Consistently ranked the most user-friendly and highest value
Buy now! » |
| | Anycount & Translation Office 3000 | Translation Office 3000
Translation Office 3000 is an advanced accounting tool for freelance translators and small agencies. TO3000 easily and seamlessly integrates with the business life of professional freelance translators.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
