| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Kudoz answerers posting minuses to others Thread poster: Jessica Noyes
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Jessica Noyes 
United States
Local time: 14:35
Member
Spanish to English
+ ...
Perhaps this topic has been discussed. If so, I would appreciate the link.
I am seeing more and more people who are answering kudoz questions posting minuses to other answers. Since, in a small way, Kudoz is like a contest with judges, this practices means that some of the competitors also ask as judges -- and this is against traditional rules of fairness.
I think that answerers who disagree with the replies of others, and think they have good reasons for doing so shou... See more Perhaps this topic has been discussed. If so, I would appreciate the link.
I am seeing more and more people who are answering kudoz questions posting minuses to other answers. Since, in a small way, Kudoz is like a contest with judges, this practices means that some of the competitors also ask as judges -- and this is against traditional rules of fairness.
I think that answerers who disagree with the replies of others, and think they have good reasons for doing so should either: a) post their reasoning in the discussion box as a discussion; b) post it as a neutral and explain why (still not lowering their 'competitor's' score,) or c) explain why they disagree in the box that holds their own reply, added as a later comment.
*Not post a minus* and lower the other person's score. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Nothing new about it | Aug 29, 2009 |
Jessica Noyes wrote:
Perhaps this topic has been discussed. If so, I would appreciate the link.
I am seeing more and more people who are answering kudoz questions posting minuses to other answers. Since, in a small way, Kudoz is like a contest with judges, this practices means that some of the competitors also ask as judges -- and this is against traditional rules of fairness.
I think that answerers who disagree with the replies of others, and think they have good reasons for doing so should either: a) post their reasoning in the discussion box as a discussion; b) post it as a neutral and explain why (still not lowering their 'competitor's' score,) or c) explain why they disagree in the box that holds their own reply, added as a later comment.
*Not post a minus* and lower the other person's score.
Some people answer and then systematically post disagrees or neutrals to other answers. Fortunately not everyone does this and some of us consider it a rather obnoxious tactic. But there is no rule against it so there is nothing anyone can do to stop this behaviour. (Criticizing it in a peer comment could ask get the commenter into trouble though).
My suggestion: don't look at agrees/disagrees as 'scores' (they are just opinions, some informed and some not) and don't take Kudoz too seriously. You may find some help there if you're lucky and it can also have good entertainment value.
[Edited at 2009-08-29 10:29 GMT]
| | | | Tina Vonhof (X)
Canada
Local time: 12:35
Dutch to English
+ ...
| with Writeaway | Aug 29, 2009 |
Don't look at this this as a competition with scores, winners, losers etc. It isn't about who gets the points, it's about helping the asker find the best possible answer. I have a rule for myself: I don't post a 'neutral' or 'disagree' if I don't have a better answer myself. Even then, I only 'disagree' if the answer is really wrong but I think the asker may not know that. And yes, I usually explain why I think it is wrong.
My biggest beef is people who propose a slight variation... See more Don't look at this this as a competition with scores, winners, losers etc. It isn't about who gets the points, it's about helping the asker find the best possible answer. I have a rule for myself: I don't post a 'neutral' or 'disagree' if I don't have a better answer myself. Even then, I only 'disagree' if the answer is really wrong but I think the asker may not know that. And yes, I usually explain why I think it is wrong.
My biggest beef is people who propose a slight variation on a previous answer instead of agreeing and adding their alternative suggestion. ▲ Collapse
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I think that answerers who disagree with the replies of others, and think they have good reasons for doing so should either: a) post their reasoning in the discussion box as a discussion; b) post it as a neutral and explain why (still not lowering their 'competitor's' score,) or c) explain why they disagree in the box that holds their own reply, added as a later comment.
*Not post a minus* and lower the other person's score.
That would be even more detrimental to the system. I don't understand why some people take disagrees as personal attacks, that seems infantile to me. If an answer is wrong, why should it be neutral? Is it to spare somebody's feelings? It's just misleading. In the meantime, that wrong answer could be selected and ADDED to the glossary. And that happens all the time. People who post a different answer have more authority to post a disagree.
And yes, that has been discussed many times and we all have different opinions, here are a couple of my posts, of course there have been many more discussions:
http://www.proz.com/forum/kudoz/112987-kudoz_i_give_up-page3.html#923321
http://www.proz.com/forum/kudoz/83999-dirty_tactics_peer_disagree_and_then_post_your_own_answer_question_mark_added_by_staff.html#671095
Finally, Amy Williams said something very true in my opinion:
Failure to use the disagree button (for fear of retaliation??) where warranted is, IMO, responsible for a good deal of the mediocrity in KudoZ today.
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Jessica Noyes
United States
Local time: 14:35
Member
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Thanks for the links | Aug 29, 2009 |
This topic has been well and coherently discussed in previous threads, and I can see that there is another way of looking at the issue. It's likely there's not much more to be said on the subject.
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Tina Vonhof wrote:
My biggest beef is people who propose a slight variation on a previous answer instead of agreeing and adding their alternative suggestion.
I could not agree more with that. There is a word for that: plagiarism. Such users should just "agree" and offer their variation, if any.
| | | | Robert Forstag
United States
Local time: 14:35
Spanish to English
+ ...
| If done judiciously, I don't see a problem with it | Aug 29, 2009 |
I absolutely agree with Claudia and Andrew, and I would myself contend that if someone posts a suggestion that is not only not plausible, but obviously *wrong*, and if they also attach a high confidence level to such a suggestion, then I think it appropriate to post a "disagree," whether or not I have posted my own suggestion for the same term.
This is not against Kudoz rules. I also don't think that it goes against standard rules of fair play. After all, this is not Mister Rogers' ... See more I absolutely agree with Claudia and Andrew, and I would myself contend that if someone posts a suggestion that is not only not plausible, but obviously *wrong*, and if they also attach a high confidence level to such a suggestion, then I think it appropriate to post a "disagree," whether or not I have posted my own suggestion for the same term.
This is not against Kudoz rules. I also don't think that it goes against standard rules of fair play. After all, this is not Mister Rogers' Neighborhood: Kudoz was designed primarily to be a forum for professional translators to assist other professionals. Making critical judgments is a fundamental part of this process.
Once again, I generally reserve "disagrees" for answers that are obviously way off base, *and* which have a high confidence level attached to them (even worse is when such responses have generated a number of "agrees"). I would thus go even farther than than Jessica, Tina, and Ing-Rus in terms of refraining from disagreeing not only with answers that are slight variations of what I may have offered, but with those that are even *minimally plausible.* In these latter cases, I do feel that posting "disagrees" is against the spirit, if not the letter, of the Kudoz system.
[Edited at 2009-08-29 05:17 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Andrew Levine
United States
Local time: 14:35
Member (2007)
French to English
+ ...
| Different tack | Aug 29, 2009 |
t isn't about who gets the points, it's about helping the asker find the best possible answer. I have a rule for myself: I don't post a 'neutral' or 'disagree' if I don't have a better answer myself.
Aren't these two sentences at odds with one another? If I see an answer that's definitely wrong, I'll always rate it "disagree", and explain why, and I'll try to add a better answer if I can think of one. However, sometimes there are situations where the correct answer is not obvious, but an unscrupulous or misinformed user will offer an incorrect response anyway. This happens a lot with questions about abbreviations, when someone will give a reply that could not possibly work in the context. I wouldn't want to simply give another answer that is equally likely to be wrong, just for the sake of giving an answer.
[Edited at 2009-08-29 04:55 GMT]
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Neil Cross
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:35
Member (2006)
Dutch to English
+ ...
| Piggybacking | Aug 29, 2009 |
Tina Vonhof wrote:
My biggest beef is people who propose a slight variation on a previous answer instead of agreeing and adding their alternative suggestion.
Absolutely, Tina. You may recall a recent Dutch > English question in which an answerer simply added an "s" to my answer, said something to the effect that "this term is more commonly used in the plural" and walked off with four points!
I had to count to ten, remind myself then that Kudoz is about helping colleagues and not about winning/losing or collecting points – but it's safe to say I wasn't too impressed. It's just not cricket, old chap
| | | | cilantro
Israel
Local time: 21:35
Italian to English
+ ...
| Piggybackers should be shot | Aug 29, 2009 |
Cricket or not... let's say the truth, first of all a lot of inane questions get asked in the kudoz. There are so many basic questions that one wonders how it came to pass that those people got the job. And then on top of it they post their questions. In my opinion only every once in a blue moon there is a real question that requires some thinking. Unfortunately it seems that both the askers AND those providing permutated answers prefer not to exercise too much.
One way or another the kud... See more Cricket or not... let's say the truth, first of all a lot of inane questions get asked in the kudoz. There are so many basic questions that one wonders how it came to pass that those people got the job. And then on top of it they post their questions. In my opinion only every once in a blue moon there is a real question that requires some thinking. Unfortunately it seems that both the askers AND those providing permutated answers prefer not to exercise too much.
One way or another the kudoz is a competitive forum, so maybe there should be a better solution? How about losing points for stupid answers or unsportsmanlike behavior? ▲ Collapse
| | | | jacana54 (X)
Uruguay
English to Spanish
+ ...
Eng-Rus/Rus-Eng wrote: Tina Vonhof wrote:
My biggest beef is people who propose a slight variation on a previous answer instead of agreeing and adding their alternative suggestion.
I could not agree more with that. There is a word for that: plagiarism. Such users should just "agree" and offer their variation, if any.
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Tina Vonhof (X)
Canada
Local time: 12:35
Dutch to English
+ ...
| Prime example | Aug 29, 2009 |
[/quote]
Absolutely, Tina. You may recall a recent Dutch > English question in which an answerer simply added an "s" to my answer, said something to the effect that "this term is more commonly used in the plural" and walked off with four points!
I had to count to ten, remind myself then that Kudoz is about helping colleagues and not about winning/losing or collecting points – but it's safe to say I wasn't too impressed. It's just not cricket, old chap ... See more [/quote]
Absolutely, Tina. You may recall a recent Dutch > English question in which an answerer simply added an "s" to my answer, said something to the effect that "this term is more commonly used in the plural" and walked off with four points!
I had to count to ten, remind myself then that Kudoz is about helping colleagues and not about winning/losing or collecting points – but it's safe to say I wasn't too impressed. It's just not cricket, old chap
[/quote]
Yes Neil, I do recall that one and it is a prime example. I was tempted to say something about it but that is against the Kudoz rules. There is very little recourse against that sort of thing except to be careful to agree with the original good answer. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Totally agree with Tina | Aug 30, 2009 |
I've generally been fortunate enough that if someone likes my answer but thinks it would be better with a slight modification, they give me an agree and offer that modification in the explanation box. But I think it is really cheap when I see someone has taken the same basic answer and maybe slightly improved it a good hour after the first answer was posted.
| | | | | Agreeing mayhem | Sep 16, 2009 |
I saw this kind of behavior too. Let me tell you my experience in the KudoZ ring.
I entered a question and answered, there were 4 other answers already.
A bit later, a sixth answerer appeared, and after answering with a confidence of 5 (arrogant in my opinion seeing the others were not really wrong) methodically added a Disagree to every other answer already there with very lame reasons in some cases .
... See more I saw this kind of behavior too. Let me tell you my experience in the KudoZ ring.
I entered a question and answered, there were 4 other answers already.
A bit later, a sixth answerer appeared, and after answering with a confidence of 5 (arrogant in my opinion seeing the others were not really wrong) methodically added a Disagree to every other answer already there with very lame reasons in some cases.
Of course, me and all the others started agreeing with each others' answers, and entering disagrees to this person's to send him to the bottom of the list . The comments were "I agree with you to compensate for the unfair disagree" and the like.
Conclusion: the asker never found it useful, and the automatic assigning of points and the glossary entry are not reliable in a case like this.
Is there a way of reporting these type of users?
I saw the links to the moderators but can they ban them or "take measures"? ▲ Collapse
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