| Stron w wątku: < [1 2] | Poll: What do you do when corresponding with a client whose gender you don't know? Autor wątku: ProZ.com Staff
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Elodie Bonnafous
Francja
Local time: 09:50
Członek ProZ.com
od 2009
niemiecki > francuski
+ ...
| search for identical fisrt names | Aug 8, 2012 |
This already happened a couple of times, and I searched identical first names on Facebook. Best way to determine the gender of a first name you don't know.
| | | | Julian Holmes 
Japonia
Local time: 16:50
Członek ProZ.com
od 2011
japoński > angielski
| What's in a name? | Aug 8, 2012 |
Wordeffect wrote:
@ Julian: a fascinating insight into Japanese culture!
Thank you, here's Part II
To continue with the gender thing, there are 861 Kanji or Chinese characters officially recognized for use in people's names here, and people here are very creative with how these and the other couple of 1,000 daily use Kanji can be read. Even the Chinese have immense difficulty with reading Chinese characters (sounds ironiic but true!) used in Japan because of all the different possible permutations and readings. And new names come in and out of fashion and crop up like mushrooms. So, you can tell a person's gender in most cases by looking at his/her name but you may not be able to read it as it was originally intended. Don't worry -- even the Japanese have to think twice and check with the other person about how to read names since some are almost impossible to figure out. You'll find the Japanese very tolerant about this. 
This makes Japanese as a language very fascinating. I'm still amazed that I am discovering something new every day even though I'm in my 34th year here.
| | | | | Hindi / Marathi are gender specific too | Aug 8, 2012 |
There are too many languages in India for any single person to master and in any case I do not offer language services in any of them; however I do use Hindi and sometimes Marathi in daily conversation. In both of these, one would normally have to disclose one's gender in spoken and written communication; for example a boy would say "Mein skool jata hoon" (I go to school) while a girl would have to say "Mein skool jati hoon". Hence if one were to receive an email from a client written in Hindi ... See more There are too many languages in India for any single person to master and in any case I do not offer language services in any of them; however I do use Hindi and sometimes Marathi in daily conversation. In both of these, one would normally have to disclose one's gender in spoken and written communication; for example a boy would say "Mein skool jata hoon" (I go to school) while a girl would have to say "Mein skool jati hoon". Hence if one were to receive an email from a client written in Hindi / Marathi, it would ordinarily be a cakewalk to determine the sex of the author. Unless the author takes very special pains to disguise it using third person throughout
Julian Holmes wrote: Michael Harris wrote:
Hi Julian, I thought that Japanese men had a different style of writing to women? @Michael Thanks for asking. Yes, you are right. However, what I wrote was specifically for e-mails, the main mode of initial contact and business correspondence these days. Most e-mails are generally a flat, neutral but polite style, using standard courteous phrases and wording, devoid of any leaning towards a particular sex, which makes it difficult to tell the gender of the person. A kind of honogenous, in-between style, if you like. Literature or any other form of creative writing is a completely different kettle of fish, however. With spoken Japanese, gender differences are very apparent -- much softer and rounder phrasing for women (some dialects around Osaka and Kyoto are so scrumptious and mouth-watering they'll make you melt, BTW I live in Kyoto), and blunter and brusquer wording and style for men. If the author chooses to write in a colloquial style, you can tell the gender of the writer right away even though the softness/harshness or "force" of the spoken word will not come across completely in the written word. However, if a Japanese person contacts you out of the blue in English, then this kind of nuance will be absolutely lost. It's a very language-specific thing. Are there any other languages out there that fall into the above category? Hope this helps.
[Edited at 2012-08-08 14:23 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | neilmac
Hiszpania
Local time: 09:50
hiszpański > angielski
+ ...
I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. It doesn't happen often in English...
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Wordeffect wrote:
The French habit of sometimes putting the family name first can cause confusion: is the chap called Pierre CLAUDE or Claude PIERRE? Eh eh, Claude is really tricky cause it can be a female first name, a male first name or a surname! Same issue with Leslie in English, for instance!
By the way, it reminds me that I come accross this gender problem not only with customers, but mostly in translations. If you have for instance a Leslie Whatever, director of... and need to translate it into French, you need to know whether it's a man (directeur) or a woman (directrice). If the company is big enough, you're likely to find the info on the Internet (and often enough over social media!) If the company is small, well you're going to have to ask or find a neutral turnaround.
| | | | Ty Kendall
Wielka Brytania
Local time: 08:50
hebrajski > angielski
9 times out of 10 I can tell by the name alone, there aren't many names I can think of commonly used by both men and women in Israel.
Additionally, the first person of verbs (singular and plural) is marked for gender in Hebrew, so as long as they refer to themselves at least once, it will give the game away.
(Saying all this, 99.99% of all correspondence with clients is in English anyway for me, which is often much trickier than Hebrew to pinpoint gender.)
... See more 9 times out of 10 I can tell by the name alone, there aren't many names I can think of commonly used by both men and women in Israel.
Additionally, the first person of verbs (singular and plural) is marked for gender in Hebrew, so as long as they refer to themselves at least once, it will give the game away.
(Saying all this, 99.99% of all correspondence with clients is in English anyway for me, which is often much trickier than Hebrew to pinpoint gender.)
If in doubt, I ask. No harm in asking.... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Julian Holmes
Japonia
Local time: 16:50
Członek ProZ.com
od 2011
japoński > angielski
Ty Kendall wrote:
Additionally, the first person of verbs (singular and plural) is marked for gender in Hebrew, so as long as they refer to themselves at least once, it will give the game away.
There is no first, second or third person in verbs, marking for gender or singular/plural in Japanese. They also leave out subjects in almost all of a conversation, so there is a lot guesswork or inference. Fortunately, there are positve and negative in Japanese, which makes it easier, I suppose.
BTW, the Japanese language can be equally confusing for the Japanese as well. 
| | | | Ramona Z.
Niemcy
Local time: 09:50
Członek ProZ.com
od 2012
angielski > niemiecki
+ ...
I once had a client called Cameron... I always thought that Cameron was a female name, however, I had no problem in just leaving out sex-specific words. When it then came to a phone call one day, I was pretty surprised when Cameron turned out to be a male!
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Rebecca Garber
Local time: 03:50
Członek ProZ.com
od 2005
niemiecki > angielski
+ ...
| English does have some lovely ambiguous names | Aug 8, 2012 |
Daphne, Leslie, and Lynn all used to be men's names,
and Ashley is still commonly used for both girls and boys.
Robbie, Jody, Jaime are also ambiguous.
In English, I usually use inclusive terminology if I don't know:
'Dear Sir/Madam' being a good way to start when you don't know where the email will end up.
It's much easier in German, where names by law have to clearly indicate gender.
There, the only question is Gunther or Günther, or somethi... See more Daphne, Leslie, and Lynn all used to be men's names,
and Ashley is still commonly used for both girls and boys.
Robbie, Jody, Jaime are also ambiguous.
In English, I usually use inclusive terminology if I don't know:
'Dear Sir/Madam' being a good way to start when you don't know where the email will end up.
It's much easier in German, where names by law have to clearly indicate gender.
There, the only question is Gunther or Günther, or something similar. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ty Kendall
Wielka Brytania
Local time: 08:50
hebrajski > angielski
Julian Holmes wrote: Ty Kendall wrote:
Additionally, the first person of verbs (singular and plural) is marked for gender in Hebrew, so as long as they refer to themselves at least once, it will give the game away. There is no first, second or third person in verbs, marking for gender or singular/plural in Japanese. They also leave out subjects in almost all of a conversation, so there is a lot guesswork or inference. Fortunately, there are positve and negative in Japanese, which makes it easier, I suppose. BTW, the Japanese language can be equally confusing for the Japanese as well.
I should have said Hebrew has gender marking for first person verbs but only in the present tense! Little quirk there. So if someone ridgidly clung to past and future tenses in Hebrew, you'd still be up a certain creek without a paddle.
BTW....No offence meant to anyone but if my parents called me Lesley or Kim, I'd:
a) murder my parents in their sleep
b) change my name by deed poll
...in that order.
| | | | | If the name is given - research | Aug 8, 2012 |
If a name is given and I do not know how to address properly I research for the name, to find out the gender.
If no name is given, I only address to 'Dear Sir'. (Being a woman I have no problems when I am address as 'Sir' myself on some occasions.)
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Rebecca Garber wrote:
It's much easier in German, where names by law have to clearly indicate gender.
Very interesting, Rebecca, I didn't know. But I'm not sure I understand what you mean, could you please clarify?
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