| Halaman dalam topik: [1 2] > | Translation job and quality Penyiaran jaluran : Piero Intonti
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Piero Intonti 
Itali
Local time: 09:33
Ahli
Bahasa Itali hingga Bahasa Inggeris
+ ...
Hello everyone,
I made a translation towards English, that is not my mother language.
The agency says that the translation is of a low than acceptable quality and it has to be submitted to a reviewer. For this reason, they can pay me only 50% of the rate agreed.
How can I objectively evaluate my work? Is that only a way to avoid to pay full rate?
I did use Whitesmoke to have an idea about quality, I also outsourced the work to an English teach... See more Hello everyone,
I made a translation towards English, that is not my mother language.
The agency says that the translation is of a low than acceptable quality and it has to be submitted to a reviewer. For this reason, they can pay me only 50% of the rate agreed.
How can I objectively evaluate my work? Is that only a way to avoid to pay full rate?
I did use Whitesmoke to have an idea about quality, I also outsourced the work to an English teacher who told me that the translation is well done.
Is there a system to evaluate the quality of a translation work?
Thanks.
Piero ▲ Collapse
| | | | Michele Lemieux-Madison (X)
Amerika Syarikat
Local time: 03:33
Bahasa Inggeris hingga Bahasa Perancis
+ ...
| Quality is key | Oct 20, 2017 |
Hi Piero,
Unfortunately, unless you are really fluent in the target language, and a really good translator to boot, you should stay in your native language. I would think it is standard practice to cut your rate if the translation is of a "lower" than acceptable quality.
I think you have enough professionals here that one of us could evaluate your translation. I don't know Italian, so I could not help there, but a read through would not hurt either.
Good l... See more Hi Piero,
Unfortunately, unless you are really fluent in the target language, and a really good translator to boot, you should stay in your native language. I would think it is standard practice to cut your rate if the translation is of a "lower" than acceptable quality.
I think you have enough professionals here that one of us could evaluate your translation. I don't know Italian, so I could not help there, but a read through would not hurt either.
Good luck Piero! ▲ Collapse
| | | | texjax DDS PhD
Local time: 03:33
Ahli (2006)
Bahasa Inggeris hingga Bahasa Itali
+ ...
| Clarification needed | Oct 20, 2017 |
The English teacher you mention is:
- an Italian native who appens to be a teacher of English
OR
- a native English speaker who is also an English teacher?
The difference between the two is not so subtle.
| | | | Alex Ossa
Chile
Local time: 03:33
Ahli (2017)
Bahasa Sepanyol hingga Bahasa Inggeris
+ ...
| Native or native-like is essential | Oct 20, 2017 |
texjax DDS PhD wrote:
The English teacher you mention is:
- an Italian native who appens to be a teacher of English
OR
- a native English speaker who is also an English teacher?
The difference between the two is not so subtle.
This is an incredibly important distinction: if you are not a native speaker, you MUST have your work checked by one. It is clear from the language you use in your post that, while you do have a good level of English, you do not have anywhere near a native-like level, so unless you are willing to pay a hefty editing fee to a native-speaker, I would recommend not accepting translations into English.
I'm sorry if this sounds a bit harsh; I promise, I'm not unsympathetic to your plight, but it could have been avoided by:
- rejecting the translation offer
- outsourcing to a native speaker (if it's a client you normally work with into Italian and did not want to lose)
- pay a native speaker to edit your work
While it's great that you used a programme like Whitesmoke to check your work, remember that there is no substitute for a good human translation. If we were replaceable by software, we would be out of work!
Regarding what to do: I'm not sure there is much to do except accepting the cut fee, and maybe asking for the edited document as feedback so you can see for yourself what they have deemed necessary to edit.
[Edited at 2017-10-20 18:54 GMT]
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Inga Petkelyte
Portugal
Local time: 08:33
Bahasa Lithuania hingga Bahasa Portugis
+ ...
Alex Ossa wrote:
This is an incredibly important distinction: if you are not a native speaker, you MUST have your work checked by one. It is clear from the language you use in your post that, while you do have a good level of English, you do not have anywhere near a native-like level, so unless you are willing to pay a hefty editing fee to a native-speaker, I would recommend not accepting translations into English.
...
Regarding what to do: I'm not sure there is much to do except accepting the cut fee, and maybe asking for the edited document as feedback so you can see for yourself what they have deemed necessary to edit.
[Edited at 2017-10-20 18:54 GMT]
A few questions after reading Alex's post:
- Did the outsourcer know you were not a native in English? I mean, did the outsourcer take an INFOMED decision to hire you? If yes, they undertook some risk and had to be prepared for possible editing;
- Is it a must for a translator (unless it is specifically a translator and editor 2 in 1) to deliver the text ready for press? Even being natives, now and then we might leave a human error;
Did the oustourcer provide you with the edited text to prove the quality was indeed lower than acceptable?
| | | | Michael Newton
Amerika Syarikat
Local time: 03:33
Bahasa Jepun hingga Bahasa Inggeris
+ ...
"I made a translation towards English" Do you really have to ask?
| | | | Christophe Delaunay (X)
Perancis
Local time: 09:33
Bahasa Sepanyol hingga Bahasa Perancis
+ ...
Michael Newton wrote:
"I made a translation towards English" Do you really have to ask?
| | | | Maxi Schwarz
Local time: 02:33
Bahasa Jerman hingga Bahasa Inggeris
+ ...
I have never translated into my weaker languages. On a few occasions I have translated material that bordered on being past my expertise. In those cases I hired an EXPERT to proofread my work and revise it, and paid that person. That expert would be a professional translator, seasoned preferably, who also has expertise in the subject area. That is how you would handle it if you are going to translate in that direction. An English teacher, whether an Italian or Spanish or German who teaches ... See more I have never translated into my weaker languages. On a few occasions I have translated material that bordered on being past my expertise. In those cases I hired an EXPERT to proofread my work and revise it, and paid that person. That expert would be a professional translator, seasoned preferably, who also has expertise in the subject area. That is how you would handle it if you are going to translate in that direction. An English teacher, whether an Italian or Spanish or German who teaches English, or a native Englishman who grew up in an English speaking country, is not a translator. The bottom line is that you want to submit a translation that is of professional quality, up to the usual standards, and make sure that this is what you can deliver. ▲ Collapse
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Michele Fauble
Amerika Syarikat
Local time: 00:33
Bahasa Norway hingga Bahasa Inggeris
+ ...
| Low rates, low quality | Oct 21, 2017 |
Non-native target language.
0.03 - 0.04 Euro per word.
And now they want to pay you 50% of your very low rate?
Unrealistic expectations on both sides.
| | | | | Native/native-like | Oct 21, 2017 |
My golden rule as a translator is to never bite off more than I can chew and this includes translating exclusively into my native language, European Portuguese. I lived in Belgium for 30 years, I’m fluent in French, all my oral and written communication with my francophone customers is made in French but it just happens that my strongest and dominant language is Portuguese…
P.S. I must admit that I did translate into English and French when I started out over 40 years ago, but s... See more My golden rule as a translator is to never bite off more than I can chew and this includes translating exclusively into my native language, European Portuguese. I lived in Belgium for 30 years, I’m fluent in French, all my oral and written communication with my francophone customers is made in French but it just happens that my strongest and dominant language is Portuguese…
P.S. I must admit that I did translate into English and French when I started out over 40 years ago, but soon realized that I was looking for trouble… ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kay Denney
Perancis
Local time: 09:33
Bahasa Perancis hingga Bahasa Inggeris
It is plainly obvious that your English is not good enough to translate into.
A teacher might say the translation is good but their opinion is informed by the following
- teachers are typically exposed to students' howlers in every lesson, so they can easily be impressed by someone with just a slightly better level
- teachers typically spend a lot of time teaching very basic levels
- teachers are not translators
- teachers may have a good level of th... See more It is plainly obvious that your English is not good enough to translate into.
A teacher might say the translation is good but their opinion is informed by the following
- teachers are typically exposed to students' howlers in every lesson, so they can easily be impressed by someone with just a slightly better level
- teachers typically spend a lot of time teaching very basic levels
- teachers are not translators
- teachers may have a good level of the language they teach, but unless they're teaching at university level, they don't necessarily have that good a command of the language. I used to introduce myself in English at parent-teacher meetings, and very few of the English teachers ever answered me in English.
Translation and Interpreting are the two professions requiring the highest possible standard of language, teachers don't necessarily have as good a grasp. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Christine Andersen
Denmark
Local time: 09:33
Ahli (2003)
Bahasa Denmark hingga Bahasa Inggeris
+ ...
| After living in Denmark for 40 years... | Oct 21, 2017 |
... I still do not translate into Danish. I can write it from scratch, but if it has to be up to professional standard, I get a Dane to check it through.
There ARE people who can translate both ways, but there are even more who can't.
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Piero Intonti
Itali
Local time: 09:33
Ahli
Bahasa Itali hingga Bahasa Inggeris
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | | Some suggestions | Oct 21, 2017 |
Piero Intonti wrote:
Hello everyone,
I made a translation towards English, that is not my mother language.
The agency says that the translation is of a low than acceptable quality and it has to be submitted to a reviewer. For this reason, they can pay me only 50% of the rate agreed.
If the agency knew that you were not a native speaker of English then as professionals, they must have known that the proofreading stage was likely to be a revision stage. (Note that I say they "must" have known, not that they "should" have known. They do know. It is a fact. It is part of their job to be aware of that). If the agency failed to take account of that at the time they offered you the job, then they do not have a leg to stand on. It is their fault, their loss, and not for you to accept a reduction in the agreed rate. The only way the agency could reasonably expect a reduction, is if the agency specified at the time they offered you the job that your work had to be proofread by a native speaker. If that was specifically required and you failed to have that done, then it is your responsibility. If that was not required, then it is the agent's responsibility for having failed to require that: it would imply that they knew that would have to be done once they received the work from you, and that the additional cost would be borne by them.
I did use Whitesmoke to have an idea about quality, I also outsourced the work to an English teacher who told me that the translation is well done.
Whitesmoke is perhaps helpful, but it will never replace a native speaker.
You say you outsourced the work to an English teacher. Do you mean to proofread the work, or the actual translation work? In either case, if the person is not a native speaker, the work is likely to contain mistakes that a native speaker would simply not make.
Experts in a particular field will often have correct expert terminology, but will make classic "give-away" mistakes than indicate non-native writing. A small mistake in grammar, syntax or tense can suddenly make a sentence difficult to understand or, worse still, make sense but not convey the real intention of the original. This can mean than the translation the client receives will contain mistranslations that are not apparent, but that can have important consequences.
Is there a system to evaluate the quality of a translation work?
Yes, there is. have the work done by a native speaker with knowledge of the field concerned. Failing that, it is necessary to have the final version proofread/revised by a native speaker with knowledge of the field.
(P.S. In some eastern European countries, for a number of reasons, non-natives have done a good job of translating out of their native language. Those reasons include insufficient numbers of people speaking east European languages sufficiently well and/or questions of access to native speakers of other languages from/within those countries). That is not the case in Italy though.
[Edited at 2017-10-21 22:28 GMT]
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Sepanyol
Local time: 08:33
Ahli (2007)
Bahasa Inggeris
+ ...
| I'm afraid Michele has summed up the situation very clearly | Oct 21, 2017 |
Michele Fauble wrote:
Non-native target language.
0.03 - 0.04 Euro per word.
And now they want to pay you 50% of your very low rate?
Unrealistic expectations on both sides.
If at the start you had demanded a fair rate for your best work (into Italian, as your English clearly isn't up to it), then the situation would never have arisen; and if the agency had been looking for a top quality translation at a fair rate, this would never have happened.
As it was, you demanded far too little for doing something that so many others could have done far better, and are now being offered even less; while they expected to pay far too little for good quality and now want to pay even less for poor quality.
Unfortunately, a lot of lessons in life come with a hefty price label. We've all been there in some way or another, I'm sure (I recently found out that accountants in Spain can describe themselves as qualified and then totally mess up their clients' tax returns, leaving them (me!) with a potential €20,000 fine to look forward to  ) . I suggest you take whatever is offered and move on from there. Change the way you work, how much you charge, and who you work with in the future.
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