| Halaman dalam topik: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Is Proz too big? Penyiaran jaluran : Sally Quinn
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Marc P (X) 
Local time: 09:39
Bahasa Jerman hingga Bahasa Inggeris
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| Is Proz too big? | Mar 20, 2006 |
James Visanji DipTrans PhD wrote:
Jabberwock wrote:
There is no perfect way and in fact there is even no good way. Just one example: imagine a well-educated, very experienced translator who specializes in legal translations accepting a translation concerning a technology which he has little idea about. Now answer for yourself: is that person a professional? Will that person fail any of the forementioned "pro" critieria?
He would certainly fail Marc's professional ethics test.
Note that this is not "my" professional ethics test, but site policy. The site's own Professional Guidelines state:
"Professional companies and individuals (...) accept only assignments that they have the knowledge, resources and time to do well".
These are not binding, of course, but the fact that this is site policy, yet is routinely flouted by a large proportion of site users, illustrates perfectly the dilemma facing Proz.com.
Marc
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Giles Watson wrote:
With respect, Giovanni, this is a silly comparison.
Giles
Of course, it is, but I made it on purpose to highlight the problem... I know that Henry cares about quality, but with Proz.com he is having the opposite effect, rates-wise. As I said before, it's too late now.
It's nearly time for a nice bottle of Chiavennasca...
Giovanni
| | | | Jaroslaw Michalak
Poland
Local time: 09:39
Ahli (2004)
Bahasa Inggeris hingga Bahasa Poland
SITE LOCALIZER | The customer IS the authority here | Mar 20, 2006 |
... clients are often the last people who are capable of judging quality.
But they are the only one who should do this- it's their money. If you are perfectly satisfied with your fake Prada, would you be happy if someone told you you should not be able to buy it in the first place?
The client is not seeking the perfect quality. He is seeking the perfect quality-price ratio. If the client says that the quality is sufficient for him, we must take his word for it. If he does not want his pasta cooking instructions written by the best specialist in the field, with degrees in English language and Italian cooking, he should not be forced to (especially that it cannot be done). And if people will have a choice of the more expensive pasta with brilliantly written instuctions and less expensive pasta with sufficiently written instructions, I cannot blame them for going for the cheaper one.
| | | | Ford Prefect
Burkina Faso
Local time: 08:39
Bahasa Jerman hingga Bahasa Inggeris
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Kirill,
It's a misrepresentation because you conveniently overlooked what I said in the same paragraph - this is called quoting out of context:
James wrote
" If the 1 cent guy really is good, he needs to put his rates up. If he is not doing so out of naivete himself, we can help him at it."
Far from blaming the translator, as you accuse me of doing, for charging low rates, I am saying the translator is ultimately the victim of the community's failure to impress on him that he can charge more. Those that continue to charge low rates for good quality work need to improve their rate. Those that charge low rates for low quality are claiming to offer the same service as I do but are not in fact doing so. These people are the problem.
I don't care a jot if you think I am arrogant and narrow minded, or even a host of worse and unprintable things, but I do object to being misquoted.
On rates, I don't see anything wrong with a translator moving to Ukraine, charging western prices and living like a king. Why should anyone care where the translator is physically located? Why should I charge less to live in Ukraine, or more to live in Sweden?
[Edited at 2006-03-20 16:50]
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telefpro
Local time: 14:09
Bahasa Portugis hingga Bahasa Inggeris
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I have been following the postings on this topic ( well over 40 replies) and have been wondering. Now I know that the shoe pinches elsewhere.
| | | | Natalie
Poland
Local time: 09:39
Ahli (2002)
Bahasa Inggeris hingga Bahasa Rusia
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PENYELARAS SITE LOCALIZER
kindly remind to everyone about forum rules and ask everybody to refrain from any personal comments which may be considered as offensive.
Thank you,
Natalia
| | | | Kim Metzger
Mexico
Local time: 02:39
Bahasa Jerman hingga Bahasa Inggeris
Natalie wrote:
kindly remind to everyone about forum rules and ask everybody to refrain from any personal comments which may be considered as offensive.
Amen, Natalie. This is a fascinating thread and I'm learning a lot. Let's keep it courteous, guys.
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Sally Quinn
Amerika Syarikat
Local time: 03:39
Ahli (2005)
Bahasa Perancis hingga Bahasa Inggeris
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TOPIC STARTER | In favor of everyone joining | Mar 20, 2006 |
Whoa, just a minute. Of course I would like Proz to be open to everyone. Just wondered if there could be different levels of membership to correspond to your creditials besides platinum and standard because of the size of membership. No arrogance intended.
Williamson hits the nail on the head..."Sites like these are great resources of information and a way to get to know people. The downside is that suddenly everybody turns translator overnight for various reasons." It seemed l... See more Whoa, just a minute. Of course I would like Proz to be open to everyone. Just wondered if there could be different levels of membership to correspond to your creditials besides platinum and standard because of the size of membership. No arrogance intended.
Williamson hits the nail on the head..."Sites like these are great resources of information and a way to get to know people. The downside is that suddenly everybody turns translator overnight for various reasons." It seemed like there was a stampede of new members and I was just raising a question about the future. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sally Quinn
Amerika Syarikat
Local time: 03:39
Ahli (2005)
Bahasa Perancis hingga Bahasa Inggeris
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TOPIC STARTER | Polish Plumber Debate | Mar 20, 2006 |
[It seems that no matter where one posts, ad-hominem attacks are commonplace. Sorry to see that here, too.]
We are entering the territory of the debate raging in the EU over the Bolkenstein strategy: no borders for labour and no minimum wage. As we are see in this mini-economics lesson, competition can sometimes be a race to the bottom.
Anyway, Proz is an asset as a community for certain. As to jobs, it has its hazards such as expectations of a dirt-cheap quotes and ... See more [It seems that no matter where one posts, ad-hominem attacks are commonplace. Sorry to see that here, too.]
We are entering the territory of the debate raging in the EU over the Bolkenstein strategy: no borders for labour and no minimum wage. As we are see in this mini-economics lesson, competition can sometimes be a race to the bottom.
Anyway, Proz is an asset as a community for certain. As to jobs, it has its hazards such as expectations of a dirt-cheap quotes and of course, the Great Onadel Scam of which I was plucked like a chicken for no pay by those con artists, just like everyone else. A shout out to the coop! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kirill Semenov
Ukraine
Local time: 10:39
Ahli (2004)
Bahasa Inggeris hingga Bahasa Rusia
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Sally Quinn wrote:
Just wondered if there could be different levels of membership to correspond to your creditials besides platinum and standard because of the size of membership.
What's the purpose? Why we need the different levels? What the levels would mean even if implemented?
"The downside is that suddenly everybody turns translator overnight for various reasons." It seemed like there was a stampede of new members and I was just raising a question about the future.
My apologies, but you ARE a rather new member, too. And who cares even if you decided to become a translator yesterday? I don't mind it at all. It's your problem, and the free market will show if it's OK for you or not.
| | | | Irene N
Amerika Syarikat
Local time: 02:39
Bahasa Inggeris hingga Bahasa Rusia
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| Here comes a cowgirl - straight from Texas:-) | Mar 20, 2006 |
Professionals built Titanic, amateurs - the Ark.
[Edited at 2006-03-21 03:58]
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Giles Watson
Itali
Local time: 09:39
Bahasa Itali hingga Bahasa Inggeris
Untuk memperingati | Let's change the focus a little... | Mar 21, 2006 |
... and look at things from the point of view of jobs, not rates.
I haven't had that many jobs through Proz, but they were all good ones and all came by direct contact, not because I bid for them.
Yet I still follow the offers with at least half an eye.
Why?
If we agree that outsourcers will tend to want the job done for nothing; that translators will tend to gouge as much for doing it as they can get away with; and that the community at large... See more ... and look at things from the point of view of jobs, not rates.
I haven't had that many jobs through Proz, but they were all good ones and all came by direct contact, not because I bid for them.
Yet I still follow the offers with at least half an eye.
Why?
If we agree that outsourcers will tend to want the job done for nothing; that translators will tend to gouge as much for doing it as they can get away with; and that the community at large will benefit if the job is done as professionally as humanly possible, then the rates offered for specific jobs on Proz are no longer a threat. They become simply useful information.
The more jobs that are offered, bid for, completed and of course paid for in the Proz market place, the better the idea I can have of the current state of the game, and what I need to do to stay in it.
After all, the Proz open bidding process is mainly used by outsourcers who want to cast their net wide because they are too busy to browse the directories, unsure of the particular language combination and/or sector, or more concerned about price than quality (and don't forget that this is a perfectly legitimate concern!). The savvy ones will stick to personal recommendations, track records, qualifications and sector experience when they are hiring translators.
And for those enlightened souls, Proz is an increasingly useful way of inspecting what the market has to offer.
FWIW
Giles ▲ Collapse
| | | | Maya Jurt
Switzerland
Local time: 09:39
Bahasa Perancis hingga Bahasa Jerman
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| Is proZ too big? - How big is proZ | Mar 21, 2006 |
The first one is the original question. Shouldn't we rather ask "How big is proZ?"
Right now, there are 139 293 "users". And as soon as you check, there will be a couple more.
But go to any profile - I chose James' 81 533 randomly - and check the next 20.
And you'll find that James' profile is the only professional one in this batch of 20.
10 profiles are empty
3 are oursourcers profiles (which one job offered each)
4 profiles offer... See more The first one is the original question. Shouldn't we rather ask "How big is proZ?"
Right now, there are 139 293 "users". And as soon as you check, there will be a couple more.
But go to any profile - I chose James' 81 533 randomly - and check the next 20.
And you'll find that James' profile is the only professional one in this batch of 20.
10 profiles are empty
3 are oursourcers profiles (which one job offered each)
4 profiles offer resumes
2 profiles give partial information
1 is a complete and well done profile (James)
It seems to me that most "users" have registered once upon a time because they had one job to advertise or questions to ask.
IMnot soHO, more than half of the profiles are empty and not more than 10 per cent of all "users" are truly participating in proZ' activities.
That brings the number down to about 14 000. It's still a lot.
But these people shared part of the 101 682 announced "jobs". I say part because there are a lot of potential jobs announced and databases updated... which lead to nothing.
However, lets assume these were real jobs. That makes about 6 jobs for each "user" in what? 5 years?
Statistics being what they are, we should appreciate proZ as a meeting place, a place where you can measure the slow but steady deterioration of the translators' market. ▲ Collapse
| | | | two2tango
Argentina
Local time: 05:39
Ahli
Bahasa Inggeris hingga Bahasa Sepanyol
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| Some hard data | Mar 21, 2006 |
Maya Jurt wrote:
The first one is the original question. Shouldn't we rather ask "How big is proZ?"
Right now, there are 139 293 "users". And as soon as you check, there will be a couple more.
But go to any profile - I chose James' 81 533 randomly - and check the next 20.
And you'll find that James' profile is the only professional one in this batch of 20.
10 profiles are empty
3 are oursourcers profiles (which one job offered each)
4 profiles offer resumes
2 profiles give partial information
1 is a complete and well done profile (James)
It seems to me that most "users" have registered once upon a time because they had one job to advertise or questions to ask.
IMnot soHO, more than half of the profiles are empty and not more than 10 per cent of all "users" are truly participating in proZ' activities.
That brings the number down to about 14 000. It's still a lot.
For the "how many" question please check http://www.proz.com/topic/43282
I quote:
Henry wrote:
... but a significant number of those have email addresses which are no longer valid.
There are better statistic to look at when asking "How many ProZians are there?" One is daily logins. Up to 9000 users log in on weekdays. And for every one that logs in, there are approximately four that visit the site but do not log in.
Looking at logins over a one month period, we see that about 25,000 registered site users log in at least once per month.
Another statistic is page views. On a weekday, we serve up to 700,000 page views.
Regards,
Enrique
[Edited at 2006-03-21 13:53]
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