| Halaman dalam topik: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183] | Should “native language” claims be verified? Penyiaran jaluran : XXXphxxx (X)
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Siegfried Armbruster 
Jerman
Local time: 02:05
Bahasa Inggeris hingga Bahasa Jerman
+ ...
Untuk memperingati | Sorry, this is not insulting, it is live comedy | Oct 2, 2012 |
The British English native thought that the American English native made a typical mistake made by the typical native American English speakers.
The German living in the US informed the British English native about the fact that the American English native is from Poland.
ROFL
this shows that being native or not, it is no problem at all to spot an non native - at least this was claimed about 1000 times in this thread
ROFL
Comedy live.
[quote]Nicole Schnell wrote:
Oliver Walter wrote:
LilianBoland wrote:
Secondly, yes, I could really care less if someone called himself or herself a native speaker of Polish, or Lithuanian, or some other languages that had played some role in my family heritage.
The colleague you quoted is not an American native speaker. The colleague is from Poland.
Please refrain from generalizing and simply because some non-native speaker made a grammatical mistake please do not jump to conclusions that all Americans speak like that.
Typical American non-understanding of English that becomes part of American English as it is often used!
This is highly insulting.
| | | | Oliver Walter
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:05
Bahasa Jerman hingga Bahasa Inggeris
+ ...
| Justified, I think | Oct 2, 2012 |
Nicole Schnell wrote:
LilianBoland wrote:
Secondly, yes, I could really care less if someone called himself or herself a native speaker of Polish, or Lithuanian, or some other languages that had played some role in my family heritage.
The colleague you quoted is not an American native speaker. The colleague is from Poland.
1. She claims English as a native language, which some Prozians probably dispute, but I didn't want to accuse her of making this mistake as if she were the only perpetrator.
Please refrain from generalizing and simply because some non-native speaker made a grammatical mistake please do not jump to conclusions that all Americans speak like that.
2. I don't think I am generalizing much - I have seen exactly this error in wirtten material from different native American English speakers, not only this example from Lilian. There is lots of independent evidence on the Web. See, for example:
http://articles.boston.com/2010-10-24/lifestyle/29303907_1_care-peeves-decades
(Millions of hits for my Google search string:
American "I could care less"
)
Oliver Walter wrote:
Typical American non-understanding of English that becomes part of American English as it is often used!
Nicole Schnell wrote:
This is highly insulting.
I don't think so, Nicole. Your knowledge of English is in some ways better than that of some native English speakers and you probably avoid errors often made by natives.
Oliver
| | | | LilianNekipelov
Amerika Syarikat
Local time: 20:05
Bahasa Rusia hingga Bahasa Inggeris
+ ...
| Believe me Siegfried | Oct 2, 2012 |
English is absolutely my primary language (or native language) if you prefer. I have been speaking it from the age of 6 at least, but more like from the age of 3, and almost exclusively for the last 27 years. This is all just in some peoples' imagination. "I could care less" is very often used in colloquial AE. If I went by the books, always like some people who only use book English, of course. I would have said "I couldn't care less", but I really prefer "I could care less" in my colloquial sp... See more English is absolutely my primary language (or native language) if you prefer. I have been speaking it from the age of 6 at least, but more like from the age of 3, and almost exclusively for the last 27 years. This is all just in some peoples' imagination. "I could care less" is very often used in colloquial AE. If I went by the books, always like some people who only use book English, of course. I would have said "I couldn't care less", but I really prefer "I could care less" in my colloquial speech. I am not even sure if the grammar says of to use it in AE -- I would have to check. the tendency in the US is definitely in the direction away from standardization.
[Edited at 2012-10-02 21:59 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Nicole Schnell
Amerika Syarikat
Local time: 17:05
Bahasa Inggeris hingga Bahasa Jerman
+ ...
Untuk memperingati | Siegfried, it is indeed insulting | Oct 2, 2012 |
Siegfried Armbruster wrote:
The British English native thought that the American English native made a typical mistake made by the typical native American English speakers.
The German living in the US informed the British English native about the fact that the American English native is from Poland.
ROFL
this shows that being native or not, it is no problem at all to spot an non native - at least this was claimed about 1000 times in this thread
ROFL
Comedy live.
Of course it is comedy live. I am glad you find it hilarious. But this is what this thread is about: self-declared "native speakers" who make an entire nation the laughing stock in terms of linguistics because they are way too blind and too convinced of themselves.
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Nicole Schnell
Amerika Syarikat
Local time: 17:05
Bahasa Inggeris hingga Bahasa Jerman
+ ...
Untuk memperingati | Thanks, Oliver! It's just that... | Oct 2, 2012 |
Oliver Walter wrote:
I don't think so, Nicole. Your knowledge of English is in some ways better than that of some native English speakers and you probably avoid errors often made by natives.
Oliver
..this forum is about linguists only. Professional translators for business purposes. We simply cannot judge an entire nation by the way how country folk speak (a language which has a beauty by itself, if you ask me, but has no place in translation).
| | | | Anne Diamantidis
Jerman
Local time: 02:05
Ahli (2007)
Bahasa Jerman hingga Bahasa Perancis
+ ...
Ty Kendall wrote:
I am not afraid about the reputation of this site - it is just a market place
You should be, you're on it. In fairness, if I had realised the reputation this site had before I joined, I probably wouldn't have ended up joining.
You know that you can leave the site, right?
[Edited at 2012-10-02 22:43 GMT]
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Thank you everyone for participating in this extraordinary thread. There were some interesting points, perspectives and ideas. (Along with some noise.) (I hesitate to add an emoticon...)
Anyway, I am going to close the thread now because it seems to have run its course. I'll post when we have something to report, in terms of steps taken in the ProZ.com platform.
| | | | | Ready to start gathering data on native language variants | Oct 29, 2012 |
Hi all,
I promised to come back to this topic after getting the contest got underway. Now, with the contest having gone into its final phase, we are ready to do some preparatory work on native languages.
It may or may not immediately be apparent what, if anything, this has to do with verifying "native language" claims (ie. the subject of this thread). But, if you will nevertheless play along, ... See more Hi all,
I promised to come back to this topic after getting the contest got underway. Now, with the contest having gone into its final phase, we are ready to do some preparatory work on native languages.
It may or may not immediately be apparent what, if anything, this has to do with verifying "native language" claims (ie. the subject of this thread). But, if you will nevertheless play along, here is my preferred preliminary step:
"Which 'variant', if any, of your native language do you speak?": http://www.proz.com/topic/236006
Consider it part of the information gathering process at the outset of a possible "native language" project. Whatever information we gather will be shared (in aggregate form, of course). ▲ Collapse
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