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abtreibenden Windkräfte

Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

Geißbengel

English translation:

steering oar

Added to glossary by Barbara L Pavlik
Aug 2, 2021 14:30
2 yrs ago
35 viewers *
German term

Geißbengel

German to English Tech/Engineering Forestry / Wood / Timber Rafting
"Wie viele Leute man für solch ein Floß brauchte? „Für so a Flößer- g‘spann hat m’r meistens sechs Männer braucht.“ Zwei vorne – dort hat man aber nur mutige Männer brauchen können. Der eine stand am ***Geißbengel***, der andere auf dem ersten Gestör mit einer Stange. Und die anderen vier Männer? Zwei mussten voraus und die Wehre öffnen, sonst hätte man ja nicht genug Wasser gehabt. Die anderen waren auf dem Floß verteilt."

This is some information on ancient logging techniques for a hiking trail in the Schwarzwald. Google pretty much just brings up the doc I'm translating. Any logging/rafting experts out there? Thanks!
Proposed translations (English)
3 +4 steering oar
References
Geissbengel. ziegenbärtige Spierstaude, spir. ar. {Waldgeissbart}.
Change log

Aug 2, 2021 18:22: Steffen Walter changed "Field" from "Other" to "Tech/Engineering"

Discussion

Barbara L Pavlik (asker) Aug 4, 2021:
Okay, now as I'm reading through the translation, I see that it can't be "rudder tree" for this term, because they use "Ruderbaum" elsewhere, so it probably is steering oar.
Barbara L Pavlik (asker) Aug 4, 2021:
The only thing is figuring out whether the Sperre and the Geißbengel are the same thing...
Barbara L Pavlik (asker) Aug 4, 2021:
I think you may very well be onto something here, Wendy. Through your reference (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/319568081_Stories_a... I was able to find this article in which it is referred to as a "rudder tree", which is confirmed by the drawing in your reference. Hard to imagine anyone being strong enough to actually use a tree trunk to steer a raft, but they do go on at length about how strong these guys had to be.
Wendy Streitparth Aug 4, 2021:
Ich habe auch jetzt gefunden, daß Bengel ein Holzstück bedeuten kann.
s. Duden
Wendy Streitparth Aug 4, 2021:
https://www.zum.de/Faecher/G/BW/Landeskunde/rhein/landsch/sc...

Im obigen Link, ist der Ruderbaum vorne zu sehen, also stand der andere weiter hinten. Vielleicht an der "Sperre"?
Barbara L Pavlik (asker) Aug 3, 2021:
Steering Oar vs. Rudder I think I answered my own question (about steering oar vs. rudder... found it on wikipedia): "Although some[a] classify a steering oar as a rudder, others[b] argue that the steering oar used in ancient Egypt and Rome was not a true rudder and define only the stern-mounted rudder used in ancient Han dynasty China as a true rudder. The steering oar has the capacity to interfere with handling of the sails (limiting any potential for long ocean-going voyages) while it was fit more for small vessels on narrow, rapid-water transport; the rudder did not disturb the handling of the sails, took less energy to operate by its helmsman, was better fit for larger vessels on ocean-going travel, and first appeared in ancient China during the 1st century AD.[7][9][10][11][12][13][14] In regards to the ancient Phoenician (1550–300 BC) use of the steering oar without a rudder in the Mediterranean, Leo Block (2003) writes:"

Proposed translations

+4
1 hr
Selected

steering oar

Mit dem Bengel, der darauf verankert ist, kann man es mit Kraft und Geschick steuern. Aber das ist nur was für einen erfahrenen Flößer. Das Steuern hier oben in der steinigen, schmalen und rasch fließenden Kinzig ist eine heikle Sache. file:///C:/Users/Kim%20Martin%20Metzger/Downloads/Infotafel_Station5.pdf

These are the large oars used as rudders to steer log rafts down the river. Little was known about such oars, other than descriptions, until an intact specimen was recovered from the river upstream from Doniphan in 1964. Its massive size impressed this investigator and many others. Between 1986 and 1990 Mr. Ray Joe Hastings of Doniphan discovered and removed fourteen additional raft steering oars from the Current River near the site where the log rafts were docked as well as downstream from this point.
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/viewer.html?pdfurl=http%3A%2F%2Fnpshistory.com%2Fpublications%2Fozar%2Fsteering-sweeps.pdf&clen=3628509&chunk=true



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Note added at 23 hrs (2021-08-03 14:04:49 GMT)
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Rudder would work too.
Note from asker:
Your first sentence is also in this document (I think you found the doc I'm translating), and looking at the picture, I had thought maybe of using rudder for Bengel, but I guess they are probably referring to the same thing in both places, so I need to choose one or the other. So you think that "steering oar" is just another way of saying "rudder"?
Peer comment(s):
agree Mair A-W (PhD) : neither of your links work, but pasting the text back into google pulls them up again...
13 mins
When I go to pdf docs, the url changes to my name and I don't know how to correct that.
agree philgoddard : Probably. The first sentence of your first reference supports this, but it's odd that the word appears nowhere else on the internet.
1 hr
Antiquated jargon that didn't survive, I suppose.
agree David Hollywood : How did they steer log rafts down the river? “Steering oars” and “steering sweeps” were used more like rudders to guide the timber raft down the river and to keep it from running aground more than they were used to paddle. ... Depending on the depth of th
10 hrs
agree Barbara Schmidt, M.A. (X)
17 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks!"

Reference comments

1 hr
Reference:

Geissbengel. ziegenbärtige Spierstaude, spir. ar. {Waldgeissbart}.

Schweizerisches Idiotikon digital - Band IV
https://digital.idiotikon.ch › idtkn
Geissbengel. ziegenbärtige Spierstaude, spir. ar. {Waldgeissbart}.
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree philgoddard : This is strange, because it gets only one hit and clearly doesn't fit this context.
1 hr
True.
Something went wrong...
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