| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Translation Directory.com Thread poster: Mohammed Majeed
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| What I meant... | Apr 2, 2012 |
Samuel Murray wrote: Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
Emailing 7500 translation agencies (the figure sounds quite ridiculous)... I did a quick test to see how many e-mail addresses of real value I would be able to get in 5 minutes. The answer: 38. That means 400 e-mail addresses per hour. If I spend just 1 hour a day for a month, I'll have 10 000 addresses of people who really work at translation companies.
What I meant to say is that I do not believe that there are 7,500 active agencies in the world, and if they exist, it would be pretty ridiculous if each translator emailed (or should I say spammed) them all, since very probably only the 20 largest agencies in the world have work for more than 100 translators at a time in each language pair.
Small agencies (probably a vast majority of the agencies around) only need two or three translators in each language pair (or perhaps 8-10 translators from/into their local language), and medium-sized agencies regularly manage with 15 translators in each language pair at most. Rotation of translators in small-to-medium agencies is also rather low.
(These are just my guesses, based on the size and needs of my approx. 20 agency customers).
| | | | Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 08:24
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Not so unrealistic... | Apr 2, 2012 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
What I meant to say is that I do not believe that there are 7,500 active agencies in the world...
The numbers on TranslationDirectory.com's database list page for the number of agencies in the individual countries do seem to be realistic, if compared to the Blue Board.
Argentina:
TD: 144
BB: 300
BB4: 130 (i.e. a BB rating of at least 4)
Belgium:
TD: 109
BB: 411
BB4: 210
Canada:
TD: 199
BB: 575
BB4: 220
Egypt:
TD: 127
BB: 144
BB4: 40
France:
TD: 189
BB: 1111
BB4: 550
Small agencies (probably a vast majority of the agencies around) only need two or three translators in each language pair (or perhaps 8-10 translators from/into their local language), and medium-sized agencies regularly manage with 15 translators in each language pair at most. Rotation of translators in small-to-medium agencies is also rather low.
This is precisely why one has to contact many, many agencies. Rotation is low, so if you want to be one of the lucky ones to be rotated, you have to cast your net wide.
| | | | | Blueboard contains any kind of outsourcer | Apr 2, 2012 |
Samuel Murray wrote: ...you have to cast your net wide.
May I translate this into "you have to spam"?
This kind of "casting your net wide" is what has made email a useless way of promoting yourself as a translator. You get so many irrelevant emails from people who did not spend a second to check what languages you do, where you are, or what specialties!
As for the 17K+ outsourcers in the Blueboard, a bet 70% of them no longer exist. It is good that they are in the Blueboard however, since we definitely want information about people who create themselves as new outsourcers to avoid being identified as bad business partners.
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Just some quick figures folks:
In the US:
- TranslationDirectory claims to know of 1,010 translation agencies
- The Blueboard contains 2,913 entries
- ATA (www.atanet.org) reports 440 agencies registered with them in the US
In the Netherlands:
- TranslationDirectory claims to know of 136 entries
- The Blueboard... See more Just some quick figures folks:
In the US:
- TranslationDirectory claims to know of 1,010 translation agencies
- The Blueboard contains 2,913 entries
- ATA (www.atanet.org) reports 440 agencies registered with them in the US
In the Netherlands:
- TranslationDirectory claims to know of 136 entries
- The Blueboard reports 460 entries
- The Dutch ATA (www.ataweb.nl) reports 90 members
Even if part of a country's agencies are not listed in their national associations, their figures sounds much more plausible. ▲ Collapse
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John Fossey
Canada
Local time: 02:24
Member (2008)
French to English
+ ...
Some years ago (I forget when, maybe 3 or so) I purchased this list. I found about half the list was out of date. But I did get some clients out of it, at least one of which is still a client. I would say that in the big picture it was a worthwhile investment - not particularly good quality, but it did pay back.
| | | | | It does not pay for the industry | Apr 3, 2012 |
John Fossey wrote:
Some years ago (I forget when, maybe 3 or so) I purchased this list. I found about half the list was out of date. But I did get some clients out of it, at least one of which is still a client. I would say that in the big picture it was a worthwhile investment - not particularly good quality, but it did pay back.
Say the emails finally reach 4,000 people who exist. Even if each of them spent only 10 seconds identifying that this was unsolicited email, it is easy to cause 40,000 seconds (11 hours) of lost time to the industry as a whole. Multiply that by each translator using this service, and well, maybe you get one or two customers from the list and it pays a bit for you, but wouldn't you be scavenging other people's working time?
This whole idea of mass emailing would be terrible if a vast majority of translators used it. Luckily it is not the case and people know that success is in targeting a handful of correct customers, not in wildly emailing thousands of people.
| | | | | how to contact agencies | Apr 3, 2012 |
Mojo 59 wrote:
Dear colleagues,
Thank you very much for your responses. It would seem to me that the more clients you network with the more results you get. I think this strategy is worth a try. One sub strategy would be to phone each one of them and ask them if they are either recruiting for translators, instead of sending CVs blindly; or ask them if its ok to be on their database. As our last colleague mentioned that some 47 references on their buying page tried these lists. I would appreciate any comments from any colleague who tried these lists in the past?
Best wishes
Mohammed
Dear Mohammed,
Our agency in the Netherlands is also listed on "the list", but we registered many years ago and never have been asked to update our data. As a consequence we still receive CVs on our old mail address. The point being: I'm sure many agencies forget that they are on such a list and I'm sure many agencies didn't even register themselves, so they don't even know that their data are being used for/on such lists.
As for calling agencies to offer your services: in my humble opinion that would only be preferable for agencies in English speaking/writing countries. Most agencies in European countries don't or hardly receive any English-Hebrew or vice versa translation jobs.
And I won't even want to think about answering many calls daily from dozens of translators looking for work.
Best is to send a clear, short email stating who you are, what your language pairs are and what your qualifications are and than include a CV. Good luck!
| | | | | Anyone here running a translation mill? | Apr 3, 2012 |
I don't believe in mass-mailing translation agencies. Any of them, to need my services, would need to have a request for a translation in my pair, or at least for any of the translation-supplemental services I offer. I cannot create demand for my translation services by telling as many PMs as I can that I am available to do, say, X, Y, and Z.
So what would be the point of buying such lists?
When I have some free time, I go to the Proz Blue Board, and check some agencies... See more I don't believe in mass-mailing translation agencies. Any of them, to need my services, would need to have a request for a translation in my pair, or at least for any of the translation-supplemental services I offer. I cannot create demand for my translation services by telling as many PMs as I can that I am available to do, say, X, Y, and Z.
So what would be the point of buying such lists?
When I have some free time, I go to the Proz Blue Board, and check some agencies. Of course, if their average LWA score is floundering in manure, I won't give them a second look. I've learned a trick... if all or most of their LWAs come from free Proz users, or if less than 10% of them are from PRO-tags, it means lower-than-usual rates.
After this quick screening, I visit their web sites, check if they offer my language pair, and if any of my specialties matches any of theirs. If they pass this second screening, I either fill out and submit their online enrollment form, or send them my CV as requested there. If they are not recruiting, or if they are members of the "must have Trados" club, I guess it would be a waste of time anyway, so I leave them alone.
I have found about half of my best clients in this way. The other half came from peer referrals. Surprisingly, my web site generates mostly once-in-a-lifetime clients, though sometimes these have unusually large jobs.
Yet, assuming buying those lists worked, let's say that I bought a list with the updated e-mail address for 1,000 translation PMs. Once I was told that a 3% return on an 'industrial' direct mail campaign would be good. Quite honestly, I wouldn't be able to serve 30 clients at one time.
The cherry on the topping for TranslationDirectory is that 90%+ of the jobs posted there are in the USD 3-5¢/word range, after they implemented a strict rule that no job under EUR 4¢ would be allowed. So I can imagine the type of agencies to be found on their lists. ▲ Collapse
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 08:24
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Speculation and reality | Apr 3, 2012 |
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
I don't believe in mass-mailing translation agencies. ... I cannot create demand for my translation services by telling as many PMs as I can that I am available to do, say, X, Y, and Z. ... So what would be the point of buying such lists?
One can speculate and theorise about whether this or that is a waste of time, but ultimately one has to ask people who have done it before to determine if one's theories hold water. That is why I specifically asked some people who have used this list. My initial thoughts were that the list would indeed be a waste of time and money, but I was surprised by the number of people who said that they had had a return on their investment from it.
One thing that many of those people said was that one will get a much higher return if you focus your efforts on agencies that are likely to need you. If your language combination does not include English, then using the lists for the US, UK and Australia may well be a wasted effort.
I disagree that one can't create a demand. You may not be able to create a demand by yourself, or in a market that is far removed from the one that you currently serve, but if you approach an agency whose needs are close to what you are offering (even if they are not exactly the same), that agency might be more inclined to consider branching out to that segment of the market.
Why would one contact agencies to offer one's services? What is the purpose of that? Is the goal to get more work, or to get a high response rate? What will you regard as a successful campaign -- one that brings in a lot of work or one that brings in high percentage of good replies? It almost sounds to me like the latter is true for you, since you do not believe in mass-mailing.
Yet, assuming buying those lists worked, let's say that I bought a list with the updated e-mail address for 1,000 translation PMs. Once I was told that a 3% return on an 'industrial' direct mail campaign would be good. Quite honestly, I wouldn't be able to serve 30 clients at one time.
If you're afraid that you might get too many clients, simply send your mass mailing to fewer agencies.
Besides, even if 30 of them respond and all 30 want to use your services, they would not all want to do so at the same time. Most likely you'd have to wait until their regular translator is sick or dead or something or until they get a larger job or more jobs that justify taking you on.
| | | | Roy Kamp
Germany
Local time: 08:24
Member (2009)
German to Portuguese
+ ...
| translationdirectory.com is unserious | Jun 23, 2013 |
It seems that Translationdirectory.com is just a trap.
They get all your information, and offer services everywhere in your name.
I just had a case this week, where a supposed translator has stolen the identity of a Proz.com member, trying to get jobs with stolen credentials.
And I presume that such thing comes from websites like this.
They do not offer any Privacy Policy, no Service Hotline, no real face.
| | | | | I understand your point, but... | Jun 23, 2013 |
Samuel Murray wrote: José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
I don't believe in mass-mailing translation agencies. ... I cannot create demand for my translation services by telling as many PMs as I can that I am available to do, say, X, Y, and Z. ... So what would be the point of buying such lists? One can speculate and theorise about whether this or that is a waste of time, but ultimately one has to ask people who have done it before to determine if one's theories hold water. That is why I specifically asked some people who have used this list. My initial thoughts were that the list would indeed be a waste of time and money, but I was surprised by the number of people who said that they had had a return on their investment from it.
Of course! They sell each list for something under, say, $100. The translator mass-emails their CV to several hundred PMs, no cost. One of them assigns them a 5,000 words job at $0.02/word. They've had their investment back. If a second PM does it, that will be 'profit'.
I prefer to focus. Now and then I visit translation agencies' web sites, and check if I do whatever they offer, in terms of language pairs, subject areas, types of service etc. In fact, my first contact with some of my best clients was made this way.
Samuel Murray wrote:
I disagree that one can't create a demand. You may not be able to create a demand by yourself, or in a market that is far removed from the one that you currently serve, but if you approach an agency whose needs are close to what you are offering (even if they are not exactly the same), that agency might be more inclined to consider branching out to that segment of the market.
You can create a demand only for essential needs. I recall the first place that ever sold hamburgers in Sao Paulo, back in the mid-1960s. Their clientele was people who previously ate ham'n'cheese sandwiches. But everybody eats!
Yet not every EN-speaking body does business in Brazil to need their stuff translated into PT. It's up to someone else to lure them into doing so. Only THEN they'll need my translation services.
This example is rather lame, however it illustrates the idea. If an agency has no requests for translations in my pair, no matter how much they like me and/or my work, we won't be doing any business.
Samuel Murray wrote:
Why would one contact agencies to offer one's services? What is the purpose of that? Is the goal to get more work, or to get a high response rate? What will you regard as a successful campaign -- one that brings in a lot of work or one that brings in high percentage of good replies? It almost sounds to me like the latter is true for you, since you do not believe in mass-mailing.
An agency specializing in medical translation between DE-PL has nothing to gain from knowing that I exist. What would be the point of introducing myself there?
That's why I check what they are up to before contacting them.
Samuel Murray wrote: José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
Yet, assuming buying those lists worked, let's say that I bought a list with the updated e-mail address for 1,000 translation PMs. Once I was told that a 3% return on an 'industrial' direct mail campaign would be good. Quite honestly, I wouldn't be able to serve 30 clients at one time. If you're afraid that you might get too many clients, simply send your mass mailing to fewer agencies. Besides, even if 30 of them respond and all 30 want to use your services, they would not all want to do so at the same time. Most likely you'd have to wait until their regular translator is sick or dead or something or until they get a larger job or more jobs that justify taking you on.
Though you do have a point here, my experience shows that, using Pareto's 80/20 figures, 4 out of every 5 translation agencies are bottom feeders. The problem I see in mass-mailing is that - if it's successful - I'll have to waste time haggling over low rates with 4 agencies for each good client I find. These 4 bottom-feeders will take for granted that, since I contacted them first, I will promptly accept their despicable rates; otherwise why should I have bothered? Some are quite assertive on why I should accept their low rates.
| | | | | To give you an idea. | Aug 12, 2013 |
Just to give you an idea of translationdirectory.com.
I am on that list and receive applications on a daily basis. However, I do not have a translation agency, nor am I planning on starting one.
So I am pretty sure there are many non-existing agencies on that list.
Not worth investing a dime in, in my opinion.
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| Applications are the decision of those who sent them | Aug 12, 2013 |
Peter van der Hoek wrote:
Just to give you an idea of translationdirectory.com.
I am on that list and receive applications on a daily basis. However, I do not have a translation agency, nor am I planning on starting one.
So I am pretty sure there are many non-existing agencies on that list.
Not worth investing a dime in, in my opinion.
... And translators often approach other translators with CVs when there seems to be a remote chance of getting some jobs or referrals. If you receive applications without actually being an agency, it means you're casting the impression of the kind of solid and prosperous freelancer who'd be one to have jobs to hand out.
| | | | | But I never registered on that site. | Aug 12, 2013 |
Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz wrote: Peter van der Hoek wrote:
Just to give you an idea of translationdirectory.com.
I am on that list and receive applications on a daily basis. However, I do not have a translation agency, nor am I planning on starting one.
So I am pretty sure there are many non-existing agencies on that list.
Not worth investing a dime in, in my opinion. ... And translators often approach other translators with CVs when there seems to be a remote chance of getting some jobs or referrals. If you receive applications without actually being an agency, it means you're casting the impression of the kind of solid and prosperous freelancer who'd be one to have jobs to hand out.
Hi Lucasz,
Maybe somebody else is doing this for me, since I never registered on this website.
| | | | | Not my favorite | Aug 12, 2013 |
I signed up with translationdirectory about the same time that I signed up here. I did win one project about 2 years ago which brought in maybe $100. The lists were pretty much useless for me and somehow they added me to the list (while I was still working as an in-house interpreter) and I receive two or three emails a month from new translators. Sure I have an actual agency now, but I don't have enough work for that many people and I'm pleased with the translators that we're working with now.
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