| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Google Translate. As good as it got? Thread poster: Cilian O'Tuama
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Jo Macdonald 
Spain
Local time: 05:21
Italian to English
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| There is always useful in any of them , if not all .... nuff said | Apr 20, 2016 |
Michael J.W. Beijer wrote:
As I translate in memoQ, I have MT output from …
which allows you to build your own MT engines from your own TMs, on a Windows PC.
Hi Micheal
Just for a laugh I Google translated your English post into Dutch then back into English, which should have been easy, but....
As I translate into memoQ , I MT output ...
which allows engines your own MT build your own TMs on a Windows PC.
If I try it in French
enemies will hate 0:39
I actually think GT offers very useful things in my pair : Dutch .
As I translate into memoQ , MT output I ...
1. Google Translate ,
2. Bing Translator , and now my own custom
3. Slate Desktop ( see : http://slate.rocks/ )
... In three small boxes beside my boxes src / of Cib . There is always useful in any of them , if not all .
Michael
| | | | | Farsi/German | Apr 20, 2016 |
This surely has to be in the running for one of the most hopeless combinations!
Lots of Iranian asylum seekers here in Germany use it, which is why I sometimes get Whatsapp messages like "Ich kann singen mit dem Thema Sprache kommen". Unfortunately, my Farsi isn't quite up to scratch, so I can only guess at the original...
| | | | Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:21
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
| keep those hilarious counterarguments coming! (but I will continue using it anyway ;-) | Apr 20, 2016 |
Jo Macdonald wrote: Michael J.W. Beijer wrote:
As I translate in memoQ, I have MT output from …
which allows you to build your own MT engines from your own TMs, on a Windows PC. Hi Micheal Just for a laugh I Google translated your English post into Dutch then back into English, which should have been easy, but.... As I translate into memoQ , I MT output ... which allows engines your own MT build your own TMs on a Windows PC. If I try it in French enemies will hate 0:39 I actually think GT offers very useful things in my pair : Dutch . As I translate into memoQ , MT output I ... 1. Google Translate , 2. Bing Translator , and now my own custom 3. Slate Desktop ( see : http://slate.rocks/ ) ... In three small boxes beside my boxes src / of Cib . There is always useful in any of them , if not all . Michael
Yes, I know, the jokes one can make at the expense of MT are endless, and a favourite pastime of many translators (for very obvious reasons). All I can say is I use it on a daily basis in my own work and find it extremely useful. Make of that what you will.
Michael
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 23:21
Spanish to English
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| It's about as good as it is going to get | Apr 21, 2016 |
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/02/06/google_translate_issue/
I think I read somewhere that the amount of data would have to be doubled in order to achieve a 1% increase in accuracy and then that new total amount of data doubled again for another 1%....
[Edited at 2016-04-21 01:06 GMT]
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Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 08:51
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | What it seems to suggest | Apr 21, 2016 |
This sampling of inadequacies in GT output seems to indicate one clear thing: that the approach to translation followed by GT is fundamentally wrong. It is based on mining previous translations, and the assumptions seem to be that these previous translations are accurate. Unfortunately, as anyone who understands how languages function knows, there is no such thing as a right or wrong translation (even if we throw a blind eye on grammatical issues), and a translation is right or wrong only when s... See more This sampling of inadequacies in GT output seems to indicate one clear thing: that the approach to translation followed by GT is fundamentally wrong. It is based on mining previous translations, and the assumptions seem to be that these previous translations are accurate. Unfortunately, as anyone who understands how languages function knows, there is no such thing as a right or wrong translation (even if we throw a blind eye on grammatical issues), and a translation is right or wrong only when seen in context.
Now, a computer program that can stare only at the words of the text and not the context can never get the context right, and hence, can never get the translation right.
[Edited at 2016-04-21 02:38 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Chinese whispers with Google MT | Apr 21, 2016 |
You can muck around with by translating through a few languages then back to the source.
Off the top of my head, English - Spanish - Estonian - Urdu - English of
There was once an enormous cat which refused to eat a small baby mouse on the grounds that the cat thought it immoral to devour such a small creature.
gave
I thought about a cat that was ethical to consume a little creature like this, there was a little boy refusing to eat the mouse.
| | | | neilmac
Spain
Local time: 05:21
Spanish to English
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| Horses for courses | Apr 21, 2016 |
Michael J.W. Beijer wrote:
All I can say is I use it on a daily basis in my own work and find it extremely useful. Make of that what you will.
Michael
Naturally, as a skilled, experienced translator, you will obviously be able to make it work for you. The problem is the thousands of talentless numpties who assume it is some kind of magic wand or moneymaking machine, intruding in the markets and churning out substandard translations, if not total gobbledygook. And dragging down rates for the rest of us at the same time. (BTW, I use GT4T, but just saying)
| | | | Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:21
Serbian to English
+ ...
| ramming open doors | Apr 23, 2016 |
neilmac wrote: Michael J.W. Beijer wrote:
All I can say is I use it on a daily basis in my own work and find it extremely useful. Make of that what you will.
Michael Naturally, as a skilled, experienced translator, you will obviously be able to make it work for you. The problem is the thousands of talentless numpties who assume it is some kind of magic wand or moneymaking machine, intruding in the markets and churning out substandard translations, if not total gobbledygook. And dragging down rates for the rest of us at the same time. (BTW, I use GT4T, but just saying)
agree with that!
@ Michael J.W. Beijer
No one is disputing that properly handled GT can be useful as an aid to the translation process.
BUT would you EVER recommend to ANYONE speaking only Dutch or only English to rely on GT for any important document?
The real and substantial problem are people who believe marketing BS and imagine that GT output is "proper translation", not those who know how to handle GT.
To make a comparison, making indiscriminately available to anyone the current quality of GT (or any MT) output is akin to leaving around a live hand grenade and assume that everyone will spot that the safety pin is missing!
If you think I'm pushing the comparison too far, wait for the day when some moronic penny-pincher decides to use GT to translate instructions for some really dangerous equipment!
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Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:21
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
| sure, why not? | Apr 25, 2016 |
Daryo wrote: neilmac wrote: Michael J.W. Beijer wrote:
All I can say is I use it on a daily basis in my own work and find it extremely useful. Make of that what you will.
Michael Naturally, as a skilled, experienced translator, you will obviously be able to make it work for you. The problem is the thousands of talentless numpties who assume it is some kind of magic wand or moneymaking machine, intruding in the markets and churning out substandard translations, if not total gobbledygook. And dragging down rates for the rest of us at the same time. (BTW, I use GT4T, but just saying) agree with that! @ Michael J.W. Beijer No one is disputing that properly handled GT can be useful as an aid to the translation process. BUT would you EVER recommend to ANYONE speaking only Dutch or only English to rely on GT for any important document? The real and substantial problem are people who believe marketing BS and imagine that GT output is "proper translation", not those who know how to handle GT. To make a comparison, making indiscriminately available to anyone the current quality of GT (or any MT) output is akin to leaving around a live hand grenade and assume that everyone will spot that the safety pin is missing! If you think I'm pushing the comparison too far, wait for the day when some moronic penny-pincher decides to use GT to translate instructions for some really dangerous equipment!
I use it all the time, e.g. in Spanish >English, to help me figure out sth my bank in Spain is saying in an email. Only a moron would think it is as good as a human translation.
The problem, as I see it, is people just can't get enough of criticising MT, which seems silly to me. For Christ's sake, it's just … another … tool. The Luddites can laugh at it all they want, but it is here to stay.
MJWB
| | | | Neil Coffey
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:21
French to English
+ ...
| Michael: you seem a little negative on the specific points you raise | Apr 25, 2016 |
Michael Wetzel wrote:
Maybe the lack of cognates is not all that relevant for GT, but the words and sentences are constructed very differently.
They are constructed a little differently, and the MT model has to take account of it. But this isn't a fact unknown to MT researchers.
Michael Wetzel wrote:
Does someone really believe that the statistical analysis of 20 mega-tetra-ultra-gigabytes of infomation will produce substantially better results than the analysis of 10?
Well, Google does: https://youtu.be/Yvvrwkxmdqc
| | | | | I suppose I should try it out. | Apr 25, 2016 |
Obviously, Google believes or claims to believe that Google Translate is improving. I didn't mean to question that, I just don't take them seriously.
The other problem with into English machine translation is that the Internet is absolutely full of garbage translations into English (see linguee.de, for example), which I presume also makes Google's job harder.
Dragon Naturally Speaking, Multifultor, and a few other things are definitely higher than Google Translate on my... See more Obviously, Google believes or claims to believe that Google Translate is improving. I didn't mean to question that, I just don't take them seriously.
The other problem with into English machine translation is that the Internet is absolutely full of garbage translations into English (see linguee.de, for example), which I presume also makes Google's job harder.
Dragon Naturally Speaking, Multifultor, and a few other things are definitely higher than Google Translate on my list of gadgets that I would like to try out when I find the time, but I suppose I'll find the time to test it out some day. Getting better at WordFast Classic and finally starting to really work with PerfectIt also have priority ...
To be honest, I don't really see the point of Google Translate for my work, and I think that it would push me towards more outwardly plausible stylistic clumsiness and error than it would help me to work more efficiently, but I certainly accept that I could be wrong. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Google Translate | Apr 25, 2016 |
Not only I don't like or trust it, but actually most of my customers contractually prevent me from using it or any other machine translation engine, tool or whatever it might be called (not that I would anyways).
You cannot ask a machine to understand anything (not in our lifetime). If there is no understanding, there is no translation taking place (some people underestimate source language comprehension skills, and I think that's where problems start).
Now, Google Tra... See more Not only I don't like or trust it, but actually most of my customers contractually prevent me from using it or any other machine translation engine, tool or whatever it might be called (not that I would anyways).
You cannot ask a machine to understand anything (not in our lifetime). If there is no understanding, there is no translation taking place (some people underestimate source language comprehension skills, and I think that's where problems start).
Now, Google Translate is good, actually excellent, in one, just one thing; getting the names of the people right. It simply screens, scrolls and creeps into every single hole on the net and spits out the right spelling of the names (could be Chinese or Vietnamese names for European target languages, for example). It's not that bad after all. ▲ Collapse
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